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Altercation raises litany of questions
The recent altercation at a Kill Devil Hills nightspot raised almost as many new questions as answers.
In fact, our readers gave us plenty to think and ask about in both their public comments on the site as well as private emails and phone calls.
One of the first people we chose to contact was Dare County commissioner Warren Judge, who on the night of the Voice debate, mentioned there was a “time and place for information” about such incidents to be revealed.
Judge told the Voice he was referring to the fact that there may have been an on-going investigation at the time the media was trying to gather facts.
That situation has arisen before and we are willing to acknowledge that possibility. But, as we noted in prior articles, two other incidents locals have talked about on internet sites have yet to be officially acknowledged.
While we understand law enforcement wants to make sure facts are related to the public correctly, we would also point out that social media has shortened the news cycle considerably.
In each of the three incidents our own personal cell phones were filled with text messages and emails from employees, patrons, other witnesses, and yes emergency personnel or their family members.
Once this information is published on sites such as Facebook or Topix, neither of which are moderated, “facts” go by the wayside and emotion takes over.
It would be better for all if law enforcement released information sooner rather than later (or never), even if it is only bare-bones information in order to keep fact from becoming fantasy.
Some readers raised other questions.
In an offical release from Kill Devil Hills, ther police chief noted “Some known gang members were identified by law enforcement as being present at the party.”
Were these indentificatons made before the fight and stabbing? If so, did they alert the owner of the establishments in the area of the presence of gang members? That location is home to three popular spots; Fuji, Five Guys and The Pit.
Going further, has law enforcement made pictures and other information available to all nightspots regarding known “gang” members?
Many, if not most establishments would refuse entry to potential troublemakers.
Another set of comments seemed to focus on the music, presumably hip-hop, featured by several local clubs and its relationship to these incidents.
Here, I would urge local community members to check out these establishments for themselves.
Hip-hop is the favored style of dance music among much of our youth.
The fact that a subculture of the genre is built around glorification of drugs and violence doesn’t change the fact that this type of music is also preferred by significant numbers of young adults-people who have absolutely no ties to “gangs”, drugs, and violence.
Banning hip-hop music from local nightspots is not a viable solution.
There has also been concern about the use of the words “gang” and “gangs” by law enforcement. The media relies on official press releases when referencing gang activity in aritcles, but added informtion from law enforcement would be useful.
When an incident occurs, the public wants to know what the name of the gangs these individuals belong, how they were identified as gang members, and whether they are local residents or out-of-town visitors.
Finally, there were some comments from readers who stated the police overreacted, as did the EMS crew that called for help.
One reader even attempted to boil the entire thing down to a “love triangle” gone bad and the incident with the ambulance as “buddies trying to save a friend.”
The radio call from the first police officer requesting mutual aid suggests, just by the tone of voice, that the situation that night was far from normal.
Subsequent radio communications indicated a large fight did indeed take place, although again, no details have been released to the media about the actual violence taking place near Fuji and The Pit.
Listening to the 911 tape, it is hard to dismiss the encounter with the ambulance “as buddies trying to help a friend.”
There are a hundred ways to attract the attention of an ambulance. Banging on the doors, dropping “f-bombs” and blocking the vehicle with a car are some of the few methods one would not use.
The EMS crew did exactly what they should have done-refused entry to the victim until backup arrived.
Secondly, these so-called friends fled the scene once the ambulance crew loaded the victim and can be heard on the audio declining to follow their friend to the hospital.
And, according to police reports, the victim also refused to cooperate with police.
Finally, when does a “love triangle” or “a fight over a girl”, as another reader nonchalantly noted result in a stab would to the chest?
If all of the above is considered everyday behavior by local patrons of nightspots, perhaps its time to pull more law enforcement off the bypass at night chasing down teens with drug dogs, and focus on what appears to be a more serious group of problem individuals.
See what people are saying:
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NagsHeader says:
“There has also been concern about the use of the words “gang” and “gangs” by law enforcement. The media relies on official press releases when referencing gang activity in articles, but added information from law enforcement would be useful.”
I can’t count how many soccer moms & such I’ve heard fretting over the “huge gang problem” we have now on the Outer Banks.
Give me a break.
Crime happens, & has been happening forever.
& guess what? More people/population= more crime.
Are there gang members here? Probably.
Are there gang members just about everywhere? Likely.
Is the good ol’ Outer Banks infested with violent gangs? Well obviously a lot of folks have been led to believe that, what with the constant vague statements, public meetings, etc. by police.
It’s almost like there’s an ulterior motive. Maybe looking for more funding for more law enforcement? Maybe a gang unit task force? Maybe they already have one, I don’t know.
I’m pretty sure that I’m not alone in recognizing that we already have one of the largest ratios of law enforcement per citizens than most locales.
& I’m also pretty sure that I’m not alone, like the author of this commentary stated, that maybe the large police force here might do well to prioritize their enforcement rather than to keep adding more.
But again, I’m cynical in believing that a big portion of it all boils down to money. One only has to read, & have read the court sections of the news papers here over the years for proof.
& please note that I said “a big portion”, meaning “not all”. Because I surely don’t want to take anything away from the good intentioned, noble law enforcement. I sincerely thank them.
But all of this “huge gang/violence/drugs” propaganda does not help at all.
I’ve also noticed that mostly only the locals are told of this “huge problem”.
But of course we wouldn’t want any of our “bread & butter” $easonal visitors let in on our dirty little secret, eh.
Again… give me a break.
“Finally, when does a “love triangle” or “a fight over a girl”, as another reader nonchalantly noted result in a stab wound to the chest?”
It happened at the Port O’ Call, resulting in a death, last summer… over a girl.
It’s happened forever.
It’s just that, again, more people/population= more crime.
Instead of constantly scaring the folks with all of the hyped up rhetoric, just focus on enforcing the law pertaining to these terrible acts… instead of handing out loitering, jaywalking, skateboarding(& the like) tickets as if they were going out of style. Quit making the easy money & go get ‘em!
Lord knows there’s enough force here to do so.
OBXER says:
^^^^yup! Issue came up in community, we are talking about it, time to take action, fix problem, move on to next issue…I know its easier said then done but often times we get caught at the “talking about it” point and never do anything…support and encourage our law enforcement to take action as im sure they already are.
beachornot says:
In general I agree with NagsHeader above. It would be interesting to see one of the newspapers investigate the number of law enforcement officers vs. citizens in Dare County. To go a step further it would be interesting to examine the fleet of county vehicles of all descriptions deemed necessary by the powers that be. I swear every fifth car I go past is a county vehicle law enforcement or otherwise.
In regards to the initial topic of gangs on the Outer Banks it seems to me that gang members make no effort to hide their allegiance to a gang. It shouldn’t take a super sleuth to look at a tattooed person with their pants hanging to their knees and decipher that yep, there’s a gang member. Perhaps that would not account for all the gang members but it would be a start.
Joan says:
I appreciate your comments Russ. I think Mr. Judge is saying that it does not matter what the facts are, or the emotions. The county will handle it.
I had to pause when I saw this man http://outerbanksvoice.com/2012/08/08/nags-head-man-charged-in-death-of-kdh-bicyclist/
on a political goodwill tour Sunday with his dad meeting Stan White, Warren Judge and other local political powerhouses to perhaps show he was a not a gang member or monster, but a good man, raised well who made bad choices. I know this will assist him with leniency of the court via politics, and the gang members will be labled and crucified because of their lack of polictical connection or correctness. The County will handle it, above board or not…despite the facts or emotions…based on the gene pool lottery, and their ability to keep the “right” people in power.
Pit Neighbor says:
Russ. Let me ask you a question.
If you own a night club that caters to a diverse clientele,
and you and you alone are responsible for the music format
which will determine your clientele for the evening, don’t
you have FULL responsibility for the outcome?
You are wrong when you say you can’t just “ban hip hop nights”. Are you INSANE???? OF course you can, and in this
case SHOULD, until the clientele which this format attracts
ceases be to a VIOLENT THREAT to those at the club AND surrounding area’s.
Kind of a no brainer don’t you think?
How many times does Ben have to get his hand burned before
realizing he should stop putting his hand on the hot stove.
OBX Friend says:
The same thing happened to a restaurant/club in Raleigh that eventually was closed down in 2006 (see link to story below). The types of crime that took place overshadowed great reviews for the restaurant. Adjoining neighbors got vocal and visible (which means holding city officials accountable so residents are not prisoners in their own homes). The city of Raleigh finally revoked the entertainment permit and closed down a public nuisance much to the relief of neighboring homes and businesses. Start a petition, go to council meetings, see how much it actually costs in tax dollars for police and EMS to respond to these problems and hold the business owner’s feet to the fire. Make sure visitors know to avoid this business and why. When the profit margin of these events disappears because of the headache and the cost, the problem will disappear too.
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=4702755
KDH Rezident Evil says:
How many incidents of violence did they have at the Bluegrass Festival? At the Duck Jazz Fest? When the Platters swing through to play at Kelly’s?
Most, if not all, rental companies around here have figured it out. They don’t rent to anyone under 25: everyone younger has to be with a responsible adult. Maturity matters. If you want to have your sweet 16 hip-hop birthday party at a club, mom and dad had better be there to help keep a lid on things. Or fork over some extra bucks to hire security guards who will.
Vballer says:
First of all there are gangs here in including a 3star blood general according to law enforcement. Cops here and EC are fighting the same bunch. The herion sales here are unreal. I personally saw a biker riding with the 1%er patch on, I was so stunned that I missed which gang it was, couldn’t catch up to him. Recently took a class with a former Hwy Patrolman, he sure opened our eyes on motorcycle gangs in NC. If you see something you need to call it in! If your afraid take a concealed carry class. If you see a drug drop like I did, call it in people!!!! It’s up to us if we let this scum live here! BTW, any business that caters to this scum should be boycotted!! That right there would stop a lot of this crap!!
Russell Lay says:
Pit Neighbor: Sure they can ban hip-hop. Next, they can go out of business. 99% of the kids who dance to hip-hop are not trouble makers.
If you are saying owners need to beef up their in-house security, or avoid booking certain bands or DJ’s that attract rough crowds, I’m with you.
But banning a whole genre of music based on what I suspect is 1% bad apples in a crowd, that’s insane. The kids like hip-hop these days. Before it was trance music and raves. I grew up in Norfolk/Va Beach and spent 8 years in Georgia and I’ve seen guns, knives and baseball bats flying at metal, country and rock bars.
In every case, it’s the clientele the establishment allows to enter, not the music that determines the level of violence.
Thanks for the comment, but I think there is a middle way here.
Mr Nice Guy says:
Its not 1 percent Russ. You need to wake up.
OBXRAY says:
Russ, I’ll have to agree with you. I’ve worked in numerous bars & clubs in Va. & NC and most problems boil down to the patrons that you allow in. Sure changing the music style will keep some out, but not all. The clubs owner can hire security that,if doing their job,should be able to stop the trouble from coming in or if certain ones are causing problems inside,escort them to the door and ban them.If you have a strong security that doesnt play games and kids realize they can be asked to leave or banned, things will changed.They can also deny anyone admission. I dont think closing the Pit is the right solution for now.
Gene Hoglan says:
Given that every drug under the sun has been coming freely into Dare County for decades with almost zero related violent crime, it’s hilarious that people are just now pretending to get up in arms over it all because the sheriff’s department has decided to proclaim a non-existent “gang” threat has taken hold.
Like NagsHeader mentioned, we have one of the highest police:civilian ratios around. Some of y’all are getting played.
sos says:
Absolutely right. All the club owners need to take some profit and pay for trained knowledgeable security staff and they need to have enough of them. I also believe police presence driving thru these establishments parking lots during the evening once in awhile will make a huge difference!! Lord knows we have enough law enforcement on this beach.
oldkdhlady says:
Vballer,I have seen drugs trading in parking lots and behind restuarants and reported them,a few months ago, and they are still happening! That’s not working for us real well huh?
junkman says:
NagsHeader hit it on the Head. What we’re fed are press releases from police about how we have big problems and something drastic needs to be done. In reality there are some problems and unfortunately always will be. But the level of hype and hysteria is totally overblown. I’m sure some of it is a PR campaign to get more cops, and money. I guess that’s part of their job. But if we look at the amount of money spent – local, state and federal – on cops, its staggering, so they feel a need to justify their existence by creating and exaggerating crises. This is one place where the big gub’ment haters can go at it. There’s billions to be saved here. Bottom like, we need a sane and balanced approach to how crime is reported. Don’t politicize it. Address it appropriately.
Pit Neighbor says:
Russ. Thank you for the response. Although I agree with you in principal, your 1% theory just does not pan out.
Believe me, I know . . . I am right there, every time they
have a hip hop format and in all honestly the ones who are
well behaved are a vast exception to the rule.
The very nature of the music lends itself to expectations of unruliness, total lack of regard for the community, crime and violence, period.
If I use your logic, then if 99% of the kids were listening to skin head music and wanted their own forum we wouldn’t have a problem with that. . .and what that brought with it?
I cannot follow your logic.
The other poster hit it on the head. We are pretty much hostages in our own homes during hip hop nights. My girlfriend and I cannot even walk our dogs out of fear.
The pit can do 2 major things to keep this problem to a minimum.
1) Don’t announce it as a HIP HOP NIGHT – sure, play the music along with other music, but DO NOT announce it as
a rallying cry to every thug from here to Elizabeth City (which is where most of them come from Russ).
2) Yes yes yes, the security is a HUGE problem. I don’t
see what happens in the club usually but the problems ALWAYS occur in the parking lot. When people leave the club, they need to have someone thanking them for their patronage, then shown the driveway to leave. . PERIOD.
They are lingering in the parking lot sometimes for 2 hours after the shows . . I’m talking about 40 or 509 people, not just a few. Mix that with alcohol and the rush from the show, and you have a perfect recipe for violence.
localguy says:
close the Pit down
Jon says:
I seem to remember Will Shakespeare writing a play about a bunch of yoots joining gangs and stabbing each other over a girl . . . and as I recall, Claire Danes was the girl
Russ Lay says:
Pit Neighbor: You seem to be basing your conclusions on one locale. I hit nightspots around here quite often and on most nights, if hip hop isn’t the main event, it’s the “band break music”. What I see are tourists and local young adults who fill these MANY bars every night in the summer. There aren’t enough “gang-bangers” in Dare County to fill four or five night clubs with thugs.
These are kids with hunting gun racks on their pickups, flip flops and some business people I know here in the 25-35 year age range out their working off their stress.They like the music. It is, by far, the most popular form of dance music to this generation.
Sorry, but it isn’t what I see when I go out. And, I dislike hip-hop tremendously, being of the Rolling Stones, Eagles, Led Zep generations.
Further, I teach college and I know what my well-behaved students listen to. It is mucho hip hop. So no, I don’t think this is related to the genre. I can take you to spots in the Inner Harbor in Baltimore and show you the same thing-30 year old yuppies dancing to hip hop in bars.
Johnnye B Copeland says:
Hello….I am a parent of two boys on the OBX…one gone on to college….one was a menace to society for a while….What the hell ever…Russ….I agree…You guys on the OBX have gotta be kidding me? The so called “gangs” are invented by law enforcement? Are they looking for Money? I sooo don’t know but it is a JOKE….there are no gangs on the OBX and I think if there were my kids would have been the first to know…we had a female investigator trying to co-erse my kids into saying there were gangs when there are none….nor no evidence supporting such…HELLO…Dare County pay attention?
Johnnye B Copeland says:
It was just a random act of violence…happens every day…stop trying to put something out there that simply does not exist here?
Sean says:
@ PitNeighbor: It is stupid to continue to think this is caused by “Hip-Hop.” Really? If you do not like the locale in which you live, then move.
hugo says:
The point being missed once again, is the double standard society has created for “Anti Social Pop Culture.”
Hate oriented music is easily vilified once a tragic event is linked to it’s message….(the tragic event must be a white on black/straight on gay type of crime).
Hip Hop Culture and it’s low brow glorification of sex, violence, greed and celebrity status avoid the magnifying glass because of Social Cowardice.
Blacks Americans are no longer second class victims of oppression-They are allotted the same rights as White Americans- Plus One: “Whites cannot cry Foul or Hate when they are criticized.”
This is the reason Hip Hop Culture has been able to reach middle class youth with almost no real backlash.
Go back twenty years and listen to NWA and their contemporaries…do you forget they established wanton violence, drugs, and the oppression/degradation of women as the foundation for their art???” I seem to recall a song from one of these NWA types referring to the gang rape and murder of a drug skimming prostitute as ” One Less B—- You Gotta Worry About”
Yet silly hair bands of the 80′s were always criticized for “Misogyny” because they would have half naked girls in their videos!
I am 100% for Freedom of Expression! Sing about rape and murder all you want…just be aware that criticism of your artistic expression is not a call for Racial Hatred.
Equality also means an equal share of Criticism and Responsibility…
Questioning the effect of Hip Hop Culture is not Hatred-it is concern for our children and the world they will inherit.
No, Hip Hop Nights don’t create violence-but the behavior exhibited by some of it’s followers is a concern we cannot ignore…It is the gateway for bottom feeding trash to gain a stronghold over a situation. In the case of Hip Hop, many of the problems involve Blacks…Sorry to tell the truth, but it is a Black problem-and Real Black Leaders need to work towards a solution instead of crying Foul.
Pit Neighbor says:
Russ. Obviously we are going to agree to disagree here.
I tell you what, I will personally invite you to my porch
for the next several Pit shows, one of them being hip
hop night.
Then, and only then can you tell me you would tolerate this
in your neighborhood.
I also lived in a major city, as a young man, and still NEVER witnessed anything close to this.
So if I “move”, I guess then. . .”problem solved right”?
I think we have become far too desensitized throughout the years and have come to accept what has now become a social norm in our communities. . .if that complacency toward decency continues what do we have to look forward to?
M says:
Really? Banning hip hop? Didn’t your parents try this in the 50s with rock n roll? It’s just a generation thing… I’m a 27 yr old female, not a gang member, not a law breaker and hip hop is one of many genres I listen to… it’s the main dance music of my generation and it’s played up and down the beach in nearly every bar. You don’t have to be a thug to like hip hop. In bars and clubs, more security = less crime.
Longtime OBXer says:
In speaking with ALE officers and EMS officials, the facts are clear: drug use (and underasge drinking) is on the rise along the OBX. Much of this is being instigated by gang leaders that have infiltrated the OBX over the past several years. According to EMS employees, there are “gang-related incidents” on nearly a nightly basis along the OBX. Unfortunately, the majority of these “incidents” is never talked about by our local politicians or publicly by law enforcement. The reason: such “bad publicity” will result in decreased tourism. And, while tourism is important to each of our financial futures, the protection and safety of locals should be of higher importance. I’ve lived here for more than 20 years and time and time again the “good old boys” have continually hidden us from the truth. It’s time our local politicians stand up for those of us who live here — rather then pander to tourists and worry about decreased tourism. Wipe out the drug problems and make the OBX a true “family-oriented” vacation location and tourism will increase. Continue to place those of us who live here as well as our law enforcement and EMS officials in danger and the tourists will quickly learn that this isn’t the family destination they think it is. If officials know who these gang members are — round them up, arrest them and incarcerate them. Stage a massive multi-force crackdown and end it. Banning any form of music is not a solution — cracking down on criminals IS a solution. Still, some of the blame must rest with the restaurant owners. The owner of the Pit attempts to have us believe that he is a good, up-standing member of the community by serving on the school board and participating in community activities. Is sponsoring “no alcohol” parties for middle school and high school students at the Pit simply a public relations ploy to gloss over what really happens there? Perhaps he should pay more attention to what is happening at his business instead of trying to be a “hot shot.” He should step down from the school board and other activities until the Pit is cleaned up and is truly a place that locals and tourists can enjoy without fear of being attacked, raped, stabbed or shot. One of these days an innocent bystander is going to die from the violence that occurs at the Pit and other establishments. Now my rant on Warren Judge: His comments at the debate clearly show his true intentions: he doesn’t care about the safety of our residents since he wants to continue to cover up the gang violence that is growing on the OBX. He cares more about helping himself — and his buddies — expand their respective businesses rather then serve the interests of the majority of Dare County taxpayers. It is extremely unfortunate that no one is running against Warren Judge in District 3 this election. The best way to show him that we are not happy with his so-called “leadership” is to not vote for him — leave the space blank. Show him that we are not happy with the direction he is leading our county by not voting for anyone in District 3. Show him our disgust when he receives the lowest number of votes in November’s election.
comfortablybum says:
when does a “love triangle” or “a fight over a girl” result in a stab would to the chest?
Ever since women and pointy objects were invented.
Pit Neighbor says:
To M:
With all due respect. . .my parents or grandparents didn’t have to worry about their kids being stabbed, shot, or raped after an Elvis Presley concert.
More security for hip hot nights? If so, then you made my point for me. If you, as a night club owner, have to use more of the public resources for law enforcement just because of a choice in music “genre” then where are those resources being taken away from.
DO you have family on the beach? If so, how would you feel if you knew a big chuck of our law enforcement resources were directed at the Pit for a mele at Hip Hop night and slow to respond to someone in your family in need as a result?
This is exactly what happens every single time this happens and it’s happening far too frequently.
Joe Morabito says:
Everyone who posted has a legitimate point. The outer banks for the 50 years I have visited and lived at has been predominantly a family resort area. This has certainly changed over the years with development and employment opportunities. This change has resulted in the demographics changing. Certainly bars that attract younger people are a part of the change. While these are certainly unfortunate incidences, let’s not over react. This is nothing like Hampton Roads.
curious says:
These clubs have bouncers at the door, don’t let the gang thugs in, that simple. They ask for ID, if the ID has a ECity address or person has anything on to indicate ganges then turn them away. Surely we have enough police officers to assist clubs, all summer bars had LEO at their doors every sat. night. Maybe its also time to have metal detectors, its pretty scary that people are carrying knives and guns in our local bars. These business owners have a responsibility to protect their patrons and not put people at risk. Once they realize they are not gonna get in the doors, they will quit making the long drive from ECity. And if they are “known gang members” why havent law enforcement locked these clowns up? I enjoy going out and seeing live music and resent the fact these idiots are ruining it for everyone. They have ruined their own city and now they are going to ruin ours.
Miss Faith says:
Talk about beating a dead horse.
The fact has, and always will remained the same, The Pit is just that – a pit. It is where Trouble has always hung out on the Outer Banks – be it teen nights, private parties or just plan old open for business. It is the Mecca of Mayhem. Responsible young adults and teens steer clear. Concerned, involved parents order it off-limits. Anyone with a lick of sense can recognize a zebra by its’ stripes, not its’ whinnies!
The Truth says:
It would probably put alot of this nonsense to rest if Russ and his crew would actually do some research and put some effort into a little investigation. So, far his story has been totally wrong. This rag is nothing more than another Topix, with a spewing nothing but a bunch of cop hatred. Like what was once posted, take some time and make some effort to find out the real story instead of spreading gossip.
stuckinthemiddle says:
Several years ago, all of the cottage owners on Wrightsville Blvd, which is behind The Pit, signed a petition to have on-street parking made illegal. The town board willingly obliged. It made a 98% improvement in the noise and fights behind The Pit. A couple of years ago, Ray Sturza, decided to change that ruling. Now there are certain hours that on-street parking is allowed. Of course, those hours are to benefit The Pit. Now it’s back to the same old thing of mass confusion in the 1200 block of Wrightsville. Wouldn’t you have thought that the cottage owners would have been notified of these changes? Of course not. It was done behind our backs and the first anyone knew about it was when the No Parking signs were taken down. It amazes me that tax-paying property owners are given no consideration, but a place like The Pit gets priority. Apparently it really pays to be on a local board. Maybe the owner of The Pit could get on all of the boards and then he would have everyone in his pocket.
stuckinthemiddle says:
To the person that made the suggestion that if you don’t like living near The Pit, just move. That is so ludicrous, it’s not that easy to just move. The whole of the problem is that KDH zoned this street business on one side and residential on the other. As such, they should be policing what they did with more vigilance. Who would have ever thought that the log cabin that started out as a real estate office would ever evolve to be The Pit?
Pit Neighbor says:
Very curious. . . ever since the riot at the Pit, there has not been one single show there!!!! ?????
Hmmmm. My guess is one of three things.
1) Ben is waiting for things to blow over so he can continue making money at our expense
2) He has been told to wait by local law enforcement
3) He has actually grown a conscience
I’m putting my money on number 1.
kdh resident says:
Bad police, bad police….bad police are making this all up to get mo money? Ratio of cops to people???? 2 to 4 cops on duty to 7000+ residents not including the 30,000 visitors here 7 months of the year, in KDH. YOUR MATH IS A LITTLE OFF!
Elizabeth City began seeing signs of gangs years ago, though Im sure they were wrong in the eyes most of you on here. Elizabeth City is now nationally recognized as having a “major gang problem.” But they are just making that stuff up.
Oh and the local police have also gotten federal officials and federal judges to help con you non believers into seeing the gang problem. The feds even have sentenced a bunch in Elizabeth City and DARE COUNTY to 20+ year federal sentences for gang related crimes they committed as gang members….maybe you non beleivers can get them released since we do not have gangs. Those silly federal prosicuters and federal judges…but I guess its not their fault, its those bad bad local cops making all this up.
LOL
OBX author says:
Racist racist racist rants- ban people from E City from our bars? JIM CROW laws were over turned several decades ago people.
Slandering a local business for events that occur there on one night:
“The “Pit is where Trouble has always hung out on the Outer Banks – be it teen nights, private parties or just plan old open for business. It is the Mecca of Mayhem. Responsible young adults and teens steer clear. Concerned, involved parents order it off-limits. Anyone with a lick of sense can recognize a zebra by its’ stripes, not its’ whinnies!”
What a sweeping and inaccurate statement. Have you ever been there? Your over exaggerating and mis characterizing the place shows that you have not. The place is a restaurant and bar that provides some semblance of nightlife for diverse spectrum of tastes. Teen night is heavily policed and plenty of good parents take their kids to Teen Night at the Pit, with no incidents.
Wake Up people this whole thing is a big sham by law enforcement and political powers. It panders to the reality TV loving, couch potato, soccer Mom set. Those who sit home at night on the weekends and rely on facebook for excitement and social connection to the world.
A handful of people dealing drugs and being violent with one another in and around bars at night does not equal a gang problem.
Because some of those offenders are black and some wear bandannas and some gold jewelry does not make them gang members. They are part of the sad ass group of the population that has embraced the thug fashion and culture and will stab and shoot each other once in awhile and yes they should be put in jail when they do.
But to start with this gang scare business to the community is a sad and pathetic attempt to sensationalize and capitalize on some unfortunate events. The EMS and law enforcement are simply not used to this level of activity and their behavior shows this.
Pit Neighbor says:
Regarding OBX Author’s post.
“Slandering a local business for events that occur there on one night:”
-Really? One night? As I have stated previously, this is far from an isolated event, just a situation which has been getting more and more out of hand with time.
“What a sweeping and inaccurate statement. Have you ever been there?”
-I have, and live right there within eye and ear shot of EVERYTHING that happens there. . .do you?
As ALSO previously stated, teen nights are NOT the problem, however your statement about them being heavily policed is a flat out LIE. NO POLICE EVER until something happens, which is when its too late.
“A handful of people dealing drugs and being violent with one another in and around bars at night does not equal a gang problem”
-A handfull of people. . .really? Again you have no clue.
You are probably friends with, or associated with Ben in some way. I find it amazing, the amount of cover-up going on for him here and everywhere. In the police reports they wouldn’t even use the name “The Pit” for a while, instead kept only referring to Fugi’s which is 2 businesses down.
Personally I don’t care whether they are black, purple, green or blue. What I do care about is that the owner taking responsibility to make sure his business does not significantly ad to the crime, violence and lack of safety in our area. Which he cannot or will not do right now.
Put a staff in place IN THE PARKING LOT during all shows to control the crowds as they leave the building (ALWAYS) not just on the occasional show . . .SIMPLE!!!!!!!!
He won’t do it, because it will cost him more money.
Or because he is afraid it will scare off his customers.
If his customers are scared off by security, then what kind of customers are they?
Does he even have a survailance cam in the back parking lot?
MTOCOKEGAL says:
In reading these comments….it is sad. Being a NATIVE from Manteo; I would like to think there are not gangs…but the truth is they are infiltrating our area. The level of gang activity may be distorted by both sides but it is here.
We should always err on the side of safety…but it has to start at HOME PEOPLE! If you do not tend to your children yourselves and demonstrate constructive and positive characteristics yourselves how do you expect your children to understand respect? RESPECT is the bottom line of problems around here….we cannot expect others whether it be teachers or law enforcement to do the job that our family structure needs to do FIRST…the others are there just as reinforcement if you will. When we ignore the little things small children do and say they have “plenty of time to learn” this or that then we are not helping them….the same with saying don’t expose children to consequences too early that it “breaks their self esteem” well, it doesn’t….to close your eyes to things going on around our community that are destructive and trying to dismiss it as a one time thing is detrimental. Barney Fife said it best…NIP IT…NIP IT IN THE BUD RIGHT NOw!
Miss Faith says:
Thanks, Pit Neighbor for your reinforcement! Although, when I read OBX author’s comments I just figured they were an author of fiction or lived in a constant, altered state of reality.
kdh resident says:
Reference OBX Author:
Im really curious about his motive or agenda, is it to lure someone into posting names etc. of known gang memebers who reside or frequent Dare County in hopes of gaining some legal angle? Political agenda, possibly a canidate running for office attempting to down play reality? Does he have that close of a relation with the owners of the Pit?
Facts:
1. There are well over a hundered validated gang members in Dare County. Validated by the prison systems, gang investigators from cities including NY, Raleigh, Charlotte, Norfolk etc. not as OBX Author states the local cops and ems who aren’t used to seeing these things.
2. Go to one of the County or Town gang presentations you might be surprised what you learn…you may recognize some pictures.
3. This is not a race issue, it’s not about black or white. The validated gang members in Dare County are Black, White, and Hispanic.
4. The problem is not the Pit. There have been several prior incidents at other bars, stores, and neighborhoods. Not to lessen the impact the Pit is having on its neighbors, there have been several incidents related to the club I’m sure but I dought all were gang related though some were.
5. OBX Author you state that local cops and EMS just dont have the experience or aren’t used to seeing these things? Dare county lawenforcement and EMS has officers with experience from areas including Charlotte, Raleigh, DC, Fortworth TX, Detroit, Elizabeth City, and the list goes on. Surely no one believes OBX Author that all the cops and EMS here were born, raised, and have only worked in Dare County, none of them moved here from other places.
6. Research past articals here on the Voice about Validated gang members being sentenced federally, yes the very same validated gang memebers who either lived here or had been charged with various crimes in Dare County. These facts are availible to everyone via the internet/court records/dare county.
Sha sha says:
I just want to comment on obx friends comment above , getting together and getting the locals power to be to do something! Everything you said makes perfect sense and I agree with fully! We have a bar/restaurant near our neighborhood that we have had problems with for years!
Also as most things go folks by the time you are hearing about trouble I can almost promise you it it getting out of hand and has been going on longer thatn you think! Get your heads out of the sand and do something! Don’t sit in your chair and complain get out and make a difference !!!!!!
kdhredhead says:
I have friends in law enforcement out of town who routinely worked “details”: off duty security during special events, or even just to help direct traffic at churches on Sundays. Can The Pit, or Kelly’s, etc. hire off duty Police Officers for extra security to keep these events under control? There are gangs on the OBX. They’ve been around for awhile. And they are not harmless just because: “this is the Outer Banks. How bad can it be?” My kids are 20 & 22 and graduated from FFHS. They have kept me aware of what’s going on. I agree with MTOCOKEGAL: demand respect and good behavior from your kids and those they hang out with. I always made sure my kids remembered “WHO YOU ARE” when they went places. They were NOT disrespectful, poorly behaved, undisciplined people. Their reputation was everything and it has served them well. kdh resident has it right too. Be aware, demand standards of behavior from your kids and make reports about suspicious activity. We are all responsible to a degree.
Stating the Obvious says:
A lot of you miss a very valid point.
Gangs are a business.
Majority of their business is drug distribution.
Now, if you ran or operate an underground an illegal business, would you want to draw attention to yourself, much less have your employees do the same?
It doesn’t make business sense to do so. Gangs have evolved, gotten more intelligent and have worked hard to blend in, be invisible and make money.
The days of gang members showing of their “colors” and crazy amount of tattoos all on display are not as common as they used to be. Sure, they still flaunt their signs to identify themselves to each other but it’s not something John or Nancy Doe on the street look for.
Now, if you want to make a difference, talk to the officers that are doing the education, take their information seriously and take the wool off your own eyes. I wish you all luck in saying that you care enough about you and yours to make a difference in your back yard and community by actively watching activity around you and helping law enforcemtn in the quiet war in gang management and prevention.
Nags Head Resident says:
There are four crosses at the Bypass and Colington Rd. Why? Because we tolerate drunkedness and drunk driving. The killer of four and permanently injuring another was let off by our courts several times for drunk driving. Testimony that she got drinks at several bars from her “friends” was excused. No charges were filed against those that served another drink too many.
A biker was killed not long ago in the beach road by a drunk. Have we heard when that killer will come to trial?
A County Commissioner was picked up for drunk driving – he was excused because of who he was.
It’s time to stop excusing excessive alcohol use by anyone who lives here or visits here. And when such behavior results in injury or death, let the perpetrator suffer the full extent of law.
I spent over three decades mopping up and shoveling body parts to have any pitty for those who either drink too much, or those who facilitate it.
OBXBiker says:
This is to Vballer. There is no such thing as a “motorcycle gang”. And if this biker was riding down the road, how do you know they were a 1% er? You must have eagle eyes to see the 1% patch. There are motorcycle clubs around and I know for fact that no 1% clubs fly colors around here. And there are gangs on this beach. You really need to open your eyes to whats going on. You dont see “motorcycle gangs” committing robberies or break-ins do you? As for the local law enforcement they would rather pull you over for a light out than chase real criminals(i.e. the gangs). I have bounced on the beach in several bars and seen illegal activities go on.And made sure they never came back in. And I hope you see me riding my harley on the beach and see my patches and call the police on me. It will be the most embarressing day of your life. I am a law abiding citizen, served my country, spent 20 years as a volunteer firefighter/emt.