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Dare looks at weapons rule after shooting incident
Shots were recently fired at the Dare County Social Services building. (Dare County photo)
About six shots were fired at the Social Services building in Manteo. Fortunately, no one was inside. It happened at around 1 a.m.
Manteo Police Chief Vance Haskett said it appeared that the shots were not random.
“Someone had a problem with Social Services,” he said.
Citing the incident, Commissioner Jack Shea proposed Monday that a ban on weapons in county buildings be eased to allow officials to carry permitted concealed firearms.
Shea said that authority figures in private and public occupations have increasingly become the targets of disgruntled or deranged individuals.
“I believe we should permit our county officials to have the right, if they so choose, to protect themselves when doing the work of the county,” Shea said.
Some commissioners seemed willing to consider the idea. But Commissioner Allen Burrus said any new policy should exclude recreational facilities and ballfields, where the atmosphere can sometimes become volatile.
“My concern is that’s probably a place where you have county officials under a lot of pressure sometimes from parents and athletes and different things,” he said.
Commissioner Virginia Tillett objected to the idea, noting that receptionists and other workers are more vulnerable because they are nearest to entryways and have more day-to-day contact with the public. The discussion centered on authorization being offered only to selected department heads and commissioners.
Shea offered his idea as a motion to change county policy. But Tillett said it needed more consideration and vetting by the county attorney.
“Check with department heads, Check with your employees,” she said. “Do they want that? I mean, to me it’s asking for trouble. And I just don’t believe in asking for trouble.”
Commissioners appointed a committee to look into the proposal and consult with County Manager and Attorney Bobby Outten. One question is which public officials would be authorized to carry guns.
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county folk says:
Yes, let everyone carry a gun and then they can all kill each other, and the rest of us can live in peace!
tonya says:
Allow all to carry and you wont have problems. when are you dummies gonna understand that an armed public keeps criminals away? its the second amendment stupid! i carry everywhere! its my life and I’ll protect it as I see fit!!!
It Figures says:
Oh, I will feel just *so* much safer when armed public officials come to my door….especially after they are so hellbent on disarming the sheeple…oops, I mean citizens!
Joe says:
everyone who has a valid concealed carry permit should be allowed to carry their gun wherever they see fit. To assume that employees have more of a right or reason to carry is absurd. When will people understand government buildings are our buildings. They are built, furnished, and staffed with our money. Government has lost perspective on who works for who. Joe M. Manteo
Phoebe Endsley says:
I agree with Tonya on this.
Al DeMatteo says:
Ms.Tillett suggests that it’s “asking for trouble” to permit law abiding county officials to be armed to protect themselves? Aren’t they asking for trouble by rejecting the right of protection in the face of possible threats? I’m not sure I will ever be able to understand this type of rationale.
IBTVitriol says:
Snide comments do not help the public discussion.
johnr says:
Amen to what Tonya said.
Teresa J says:
I wish ALL guns would just go away. There are too many angry and quick to react people in the world for guns to be around. I hope to live somewhere one day, if not in this life in the next, where kind people live, peace exists and no one would ever think of harming another. I love my Beautiful Dreams.
Al DeMatteo says:
In reality, I’m sure everyone would like to live in a world of puppies and rainbows, but the fact is that that’s not the type of world we live in. Our founding fathers knew how important the rights of protection are and that is why provisions were made for the law abiding citizens of this country. ANYONE who is law abiding and has cleared the numerous hurdles stockpiled in front of them from ignorant gun control powers, should be free to carry their arms to protect themselves and their friends and loved ones. Until you’ve been a victim of violent crime, you may NEVER understand how important the 2nd Amendment is.
Prince of Peeps says:
I hope the commissioners and the committee look at the true statistics, especially the Loft-Mustard Study, rather than hyperbolic rhetoric and hyperventilated fears of what MIGHT/COULD happen. Law abiding citizens who carry concealed commit a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction (like maybe 1/10 of 1%, if my memory serves me correctly) of the gun crimes compared to those who are criminals and ignore concealed carry laws. All of the couple dozen shootings that have made the news over the past few years have happened in “gun free zones.” What does that tell you? Had concealed carry been allowed, how many innocent lives may have been saved? Law abiding citizens are not the ones who should be restricted.
Thomas Jefferson says:
“If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.” -James Madison
Teresa J it is a sad fact that men are not angels, and sadly it is not likely this will ever occur on this plane of existence we should forget that impossibility altogether.
Laws restricting the right to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise, on public grounds (County Building, Court House, so on) are unconstitutional as they violate the 2nd amendment right to bear arms. Public officials, as well as any legal citizen, SHOULD be allowed to carry guns while working in public buildings if they choose to.
If my boss at a private company wants to regulate the arms brought onto his land (which he owns) that is fine, however since the public land is owned by WE the PEOPLE we should be able to bear arms on it! Same goes for local, state and national parks! The 2nd Amendment supersedes any rule or law (short of an Amendment) passed by majority.
Remember, no free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Will Brooks says:
I don’t have a problem with any of our current county commissioners, but for future reference, just because your an elected official, elected to do county business, doesn’t qualify you as a stable minded person! Just saying……
Allan2 says:
Refuse to be a victim. And I do agree with Al above but a greater reason we have the 2nd amendment is to be able to protect ourselves from the government. Scoff at it today but give up your guns and give up your rights.
ConcernedCitizen says:
So – someone shoots at a building from OUTSIDE the building, right? At 1 am when no one is IN the building, right?
Um, just how the heck does this justify letting officials carry weapons in a building? Um, am I missing something? What the heck does that even have to do with what actually happened?? How is passing a law to let officials carry weapons in buildings related to someone that popped a couple of bullets into an unoccupied building at 1am from outside that building? Waaa?
Sounds to me like the Jackboots are just looking for one more excuse to control the population.
And hey Al – you obviously have never fought in combat or been on the scene of an accidental shooting, have ya? The bottom line is: you never want a weapon of any kind anywhere that it doesn’t have to be. I’ve been in both situations and this would be a very bad call.
And I’ve got family members that have been victims of violent crimes and guess what those victims were victimized with? Guns. I’d bet money that the “founding fathers” would sure be stunned at what happened at Colombine and elsewhere and would readily put in place laws that would insure there was a modicum of sanity about the gun laws in this country.
This is 2012, not 1712 – we can’t start justifying the present with the ideals of the founders of this country without putting that present-day context into the conversation: population explosion, violent media that our children can readily obtain, automatic weapons – the list goes on. Think, man, think – don’t just blurt out crapola without being able to back it up with facts on the ground, it just stirs up the whackos even more.
One last thing: the right to bear arms has nothing whatsoever to do with personal protection – check your history books. The reason it was in the constitution was to insure that the government could be put in check by the population – and I agree with it – they know we’re armed, they know they’ve got a fight on their hands if they get too frisky like the Nazi regime did. But there has to be limits. And the funniest thing about your statement Al: it’s the guv’ment that is proposing changing a local ordinance that would, in effect, limit the normal citizen’s right to bear arms. Think about it: they’re wanting to bear arms in places where we can’t! Wake up dude!
Ray Midgett says:
This county and the United States of America does not need to go back to the Wild Wild West days. I shudder to think that when I walk into a county building that some public official (I was once one myself) has a loaded gun under their coat, belt or in their purse. Commissioner Jack Shea needs his head checked !!!
Ray P says:
Why not just put a metal detector at the front door?
anon says:
Excellent point by Burrus. No way should this apply to recreational facilities.
Crystal says:
This isn’t the first time that it has happened. Apparently some guy (and they aren’t going to report this) went into social service and flipped out with a gun waving it around all because his girlfriend or something to that effect left him her kid while she was in jail. However social services took the kid but I never heard what happened to the kid. He then went to the social services office and started waving around a gun. I dont know if he fired any shots or not. I agree if folks wanna carry a concealed weapon.
KDH Rezident Evil says:
Hire Earl Winfree to guard county buildings. He didn’t need no stinking gun to take care of the burglar in his house.
Pete H says:
So when somebody “unlawfully” carries a concealed gun into a facility and starts shooting, the rest, disarmed by a bad law, become sitting ducks. Let the public carry!
Besides, as Robert Heinlein wrote, “An armed society is a polite society.”
Nags head bob says:
In that world of rainbows and puppies, are there any unicorns? I’ve always wondered what they taste like…..
county folk says:
I agree with Ray P. There is no proof that allowing people to carry concealed weapons reduces shootings. It’s all ego talk. Meanwhile, England has very strict gun control and very little crime with guns.
Teresa J says:
@ Will Brooks and ConcernedCitzen and Ray P – WELL SAID!
@ the everyone should carry a gun advocates – More Guns = More Angry Moment Violence + More Kind People Being Shot.
Since men aren’t angels, men should not carry weapons especially because too many aren’t gonna use them just to protect themselves. I hate the fact that it is possible that public places my kids are in may have this evil combination in existence.
just sayin says:
Ok, shooting at 1am leads to this? If so, there is a concealed weapons class this Sat at Red’s Carolina Outfitter in Kitty Hawk. How about REQUIRING residents to own a firearm. A town in Ga, with a size comparable to ours, 30K in dare county, already does… http://rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm
johnr says:
The fact is, since gun control laws were struck down by the Supreme Court, cities where guns used to be “illegal” (except for the bad guys, of course), have experienced a much higher decrease in crime than is true nationally. Strange how that works, isn’t it? Nope, not really.
Ashton says:
Tonya said it perfect! I want my gun if things would go crazy which you all will see in about 2 years and then you will be begging you had one, when you are trying to protect you or your family.
OBXIslander says:
Let’s leave the guns in the hands of law enforcement. They are TRAINED on how to react in dangerous circumstances. I was in a bank robbery, we complied and the robber left. No one was hurt, in fact no one even realized we had been robbed, other than an observant child. I do not want someone carrying a gun to decide how to handle a situation. We cannot going around living in fear and arming everyone, like the old west. We don’t want another Trayvon Martin killing. Do not arm “officials”. So if someone at the front desk is threatened, is Jay Burrus, Social Services Director, going to come running down from his office, to the rescue? If you feel the county offices are such dangerous places then put a security guard (or a deputy)in each building. Commissioners, get off your gun agenda and start handling the BUSINESS of the county.
Tim says:
Maybe they could just return fire from open windows in the buildings when shot at. A hand gun at 100 yards can hit a dime, I saw that on TV all the time so how dangerous could it be for those nearby?
OBXIslander says:
In regards to Crystal’s comments, were the police called and was this man picked up and arrested his threats?
SekZ says:
Put a metal detector and an officer in the waiting area.
jackie harris says:
Well just a couple weeks ago someone shot up TJ’s in Colington so I guess Mr. Shea wants the clerks armed also?? How the Chief can make a statement that the shot’s were not random with out stating why, is just another case of with holding information on a ongoing investigation?? Did they recover shell casings?? (CSI)Crystal makes a good point about not reporting incidents that happen in Dare because it is bad for the visitors to hear!
Bill says:
“Law abiding” carriers of guns are only law abiding if they do not fire the weapon at someone. Imagine the repercussions if you decide to un-holster your gun and shoot someone, especially if out of fear or reaction?!
All in all, for the gun carriers or wannabes out there, think about if you fire your gun at someone. You will be facing court time either criminal or civil and most likely as a defendant.
Bill says:
Also, firing a gun at someone will be the most impacting decision you will ever make in your life, and likely for worse.
Sharon says:
This is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard.
I can only hope that all the gun nuts shoot each other. What a better world it would be without paranoid idiots.
fd says:
It is not a good idea to allow any government official to have a gun on premises. A five or so hourcourse in concealed weapons does not make one an firearms expert.
johnr says:
Bill, I agree that firing a weapon at somebody is a huge decision, but, check out the NC Castle Doctrine. Effective 12-1-11, it was expanded to include vehicles and the workplace. Good for the good guys.
Sue says:
Keep in mind that the police get there “after the fact”. The ability to protect yourself is an American right. Want something of mine? Ask me for it. Take something of mine? Bang. You asked for it.
It Figures says:
Maybe the weapon being concealed is the problem. If you are packing, wear it with pride!
ConcernedCitizen says:
It Figures has a good point: I don’t think there’s a law about strapping on your holster and your magnum in full view. That’d get the point across, and it’d give the ladies something to keep busy with: accessorize that .44 magnum with some matching duds and high heels. Do they make holsters with bling on ‘em these days?? Schweet.
These times aren’t like the past – even the fairly recent past. When I was in high school in not-so-rural Virginia, we drove our trucks to school with our rifles and shotguns locked in to our gun racks in the back window of the vehicle, and we could stop and hunt before we had to be home for dinner. And that was late ’70′s…they’d freak on that now. Ah, the good ‘ol days when Cherry Bombs were still available and the beer only came in kegs!
Roanoker says:
Sharon says:This is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard.
I can only hope that all the gun nuts shoot each other. What a better world it would be without paranoid idiots.
I AGREE KOMRAD !
Roanoker says:
“Concerned Citizen” Your posts are very revealing, exposing your liberal bent, belying your “good ole boy” homespun wisdom. Next we’ll be hearing about you having to pull rocksalt pellets out of your rear end, after a night of boyish pranks down on da farm
Bill says:
Regardless of NC Castle Doctrine, if you shoot someone even in self defense, you will be impacted beyond the dead corpse laying at your feet, or the wounded individual who your shot did not finish off.
All in all, those on this thread (the concealed carry advocates) talk about killing people as if swatting flies which is quite disturbing. Your dialog sounds more like killing people is a game of sport if the opportunity arises for you to take a shot.
Sure, there are criminals out there and of course crime is a bad decision in its own right, but for the “law abiding” potential killers or maimers out there, it does not sound to me like people are thinking about the ramifications of pulling that trigger whether emotional, civil, or potentially criminal (if your decision to fire is proved “excessive force”).
Former says:
Unfortuantely, the county budget is not monitored by the tax paying citizens. While it would not help at 1:00 a.m with a shooting incident from outside the Social Services building, they desperately need a scanner device at the front doors and possibly security guard stationed there. How about considering the safety of the underpaid employees(at least some of them are underpaid)? This building needs more security than is provided!
K says:
“a ban on weapons in county buildings be eased to allow officials to carry permitted concealed firearms.” What about the receptionist in these buildings who will be the first person to come into contact with disgruntled individuals? If there is a concern hire security to protect all. Don’t allow “officals” to just carry weapons so they can protect themselves. It is the job of officals to be concerned with the welfare of all not just themselves. Also, I once attended a meeting given by a police officer about protection. He said something I will never forget. Don’t pull out a weapon unless you are sure you will use it because if not it can be taken away and used on you.
johnr says:
I wonder if those who warn against using weapons for self defense would change their minds if their home were invaded by someone with apparent “evil” thoughts who may be intent on raping, torturing and killing an entire family. It’s happened.
I’ll bet the 12 who were killed and the 58 who were wounded in Aurora wish that some good citizen that night had both a weapon and the guts to shoot the shooter.
OBX says:
does this mean the water dept, garbage dept and even emts will carry weapons?
NH Citizen says:
I agree that one should be able to protect themselves at all times but don’t fool yourself into believing that everything would be alright if everyone was armed.
There were several peope killed and even more critically injured when Congresswoman Giffords was shot in Arizona. There were several people in the crowd that day that were CCW and NO ONE pulled a firearm to prevent the deaths and serious injury. Instead, unarmed people ran down and subdued the shooter.
The fact is, it does not matter how much training someone has, no one truly knows what they will do until the time comes to take action.
The real problem is if a CCW is involved in a situation and does not make the correct decision, then another gun is involved in the matter.
ConcernedCitizen says:
Hey Roanoker,
How did you know about the rock salt?
Liberal bent? Oh wise one, I am not worthy…
Pat Avon says:
I was 12 when I was first used a gun to hunt..I was told by a very wise man..my grandfather who live of the land.. when you carry a loaded gun be prepared to kill something, that is not a easy thing..People need to be trained..in self defense not just buy a gun and think it is easy..killing is no target…
Mr Nice Guy says:
Maybe the TJs shooting and the social services shooting is being done by the same person ?
Tom says:
I don’t see any problem with county employees carrying concealed handguns as long as they are properly licensed. All people have the right to protect themselves. The only issue I see here is that the suggestion that only selected individuals may protect themselves in county buildings. Just open up these facilities to ALL CHL holders.
DOGSFATHER says:
Concealed carriers are here but it does not mean they are law abiding any longer…
Al DeMatteo says:
Rhe principles contained in the constitution do not change because of the times we live in. Just as the 1st Amendment principles of free press have been modernized by automated printing presses and the Internet, so has the 2nd Amendment principle remained the same by modern weaponry.
Oh, and Concerned citizen: I’d say you’re in need of a wake-up call on the intent of the 2nd Amendment. It reads quite simply:
“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the RIGHT of he people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed.”
The analysis from expert congressional research experts has concluded time and time again that the 2nd Amendment provides for the protection of individuals from criminals AND government tyranny.
Don’t you think the “Wild West” analogy is a bit ignorant and shopworn?
Individuals have rights. Government does not.
And to the individual that suggested letting law enforcement handle criminals, I’d be happy to do that if you can guarantee that I can array a police officer around with me everywhere I go. Duh! Yeah, there’s some waking up that needs to be done here for sure….