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Bill limiting definition of sea-level rise advances
Comedy Central's Stephen Colbert offered a different perspective on the bill Monday. Click for the video »
Coastal Review Online
Unfazed by criticism by sources ranging from Scientific American to the Colbert Report, a state Senate committee on Thursday approved a new version of a bill that restricts the use of scientific modeling to predict sea-level rise.
Although the new version dials back some of the language from a previous one aimed at how sea-level rise is to be determined, the bill would still prohibit any “rule, ordinance, policy, or planning guideline that defines sea level or a rate of sea-level rise within a coastal-area county” that falls outside of a scale officially determined by the state.
Under the legislation, determining that rate would fall to the Coastal Resources Commission, which is restricted in the bill from using accelerated sea-level rise models if they are not “consistent with historical trends.”
At the hearing before the Agriculture, Environment and Natural Resources Committee, bill sponsor Sen. David Rouzer, R-Johnston, said there is no scientific consensus about the rate of sea-level rise. He said a state science panel’s recommendation on a rise of one meter by 2100 did not take into consideration that rates were different for different parts of the coast.
He said regulations based on accelerated sea-level rise would have a huge negative effect on the coastal economy and that the new legislation was intended to put “guardrails in place” in developing sea-level rise projections.
“Science should be based on real hard data,” said Rouzer. “Just because there is a group of folks that project the sea level rise does not mean the sea will rise. There was consensus years and years and years ago that the earth was flat; turned out to be round.”
Sen. Harry Brown, R-Onslow, defended the bill, saying it’s a reaction to the rapid increase of environmental regulations on the coast.
“It’s just time we slowed this stuff down and take a look at it,” he said. “It’s got to make some common sense.”
Rob Jackson, a Duke University professor who specializes in global environmental change, was the lone dissenting voice. He told the committee it was moving counter to broad scientific consensus on sea-level rise.
“It’s already clear to the scientific community that the rates of sea-level rise are accelerating,” Jackson said. “We know why they’re rising because of warmer temperatures and ice melting. This bill basically says we can’t use the best scientific information to protect people along the coast of North Carolina.”
Legislators are wading into a debate that has been going on for two years as the state’s Coastal Resources Commission grappled with planning for sea-level rise.
In 2010, the commission’s science panel recommended that the state prepare for a sea-level rise of up to 55 inches by 2100, with a 39-inch rise being likely. That recommendation drew fire from coastal developers and some coastal counties. They pushed the commission to consider only the rate that the ocean has risen in the past 100 years. Extrapolated to 2100, that would be about 8 inches.
Though the science panel reaffirmed its findings in April, the commission is in the process of writing a policy on sea-level rise that won’t contain the panel’s forecast or policy recommendations.
In a statement sent to the Senate committee on Wednesday, four of the scientists who served on the panel said the new version of the bill still has major problems. Geologists Rob Young and Steve Benton at Western Carolina University and David Mallinson and Stan Riggs at East Carolina University said the bill contradicts overwhelming scientific consensus that sea-level rise will happen faster in the next 100 years than it has in the past and ties the hands of localities that would like to plan pro-actively for these changes.
They also questioned the method for determining sea-level rise in the bill.
“The source of this methodology is unclear, but it does not come from the State’s own expert panels,” they wrote. “The methodology has not been vetted or peer-reviewed in any transparent fashion. In our opinion, it is not scientifically valid, nor useful for understanding the changes that may challenge the economic vitality of the coastal region in the future.”
But the new version did win tentative support from the League of Municipalities thanks to the addition of a section allowing local governments to use accelerated projections for non-regulatory purposes. Erin Wynia, policy analyst with the league, said the language allows cities flexibility in protecting public infrastructure, which was a major concern of some coastal ccommunities.
The bill now goes to the full Senate for consideration, where Todd Miller hopes rationality prevails.
“Today wasn’t a good one for North Carolina,” the N.C. Coastal Federation’s executive director wrote in his blog. “It was the day when our elected leaders decided to turn their backs on the state’s long and proud history as a leader in research, technological achievement and marine sciences. It was a day they took us backwards, to a time when science was suspect and unfounded beliefs held firm.”
Bill ends factory fishing for menhaden
North Carolina and Virginia are the last two states on the Atlantic coast that allow large-scale purse-seine fishing for menhaden, a key bait and industrial fish that researchers say plays an important role in maintaining healthy coastal waters.
But a new bill, sponsored by Sen. Harry Brown, R-Onslow, would eliminate the practice in North Carolina and with that the half-dozen trips into state waters by boats from Omega Protein, a Reedsville, Va.-based company that is the only enterprise using the methods described in the legislation.
Last month, the state’s Marine Fisheries Commission voted to ban the practice, a move that Omega and others have mounted a legal challenged to stop.
In a hearing on the bill Thursday, Al Dudley, a Carteret County fisherman, told the Senate Agriculture, Environment and Natural Resources Committee that he and other North Carolina fishermen depend on the work from Omega Protein. He asked that the company be allowed at least a short six-week season in the late fall.
Southport Sen. Bill Rabon said the menhaden fishery is critical because of the fish’s impact on estuaries and other coastal waters. He said it was time to end purse seine fishing because the species is being overfished to the point where it might not come back.
“It’s an industry that’s killing itself,” Rabon said. “We can save the fish and save the estuaries or watch the estuaries die slowly with it.”
Senate still tweaking budget
Lawmakers wrapped up work this week with the Senate yet to unveil its tweaks to the budget the N.C. House passed last week.
Senate leaders say they have been at work on their version of the budget bill and expect to take up the legislation next week. The bill is expected to be heard in the full Senate Appropriations and Finance committees next Tuesday with floor votes to follow.
Once the Senate votes on its version of adjustments to the state’s biennial budget, House and Senate negotiators can begin work on a final version.
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Puzzled says:
“Science should be based on real hard data,” said Rouzer. “Just because there is a group of folks that project the sea level rise does not mean the sea will rise. There was consensus years and years and years ago that the earth was flat; turned out to be round.” – this whole statement makes no sense. He wants us to not believe people who think differently then what has happened in the past, and then uses an example of people who precisely did NOT believe what was believed in the past and did move science FORWARD.
roanokeislander says:
idiocracy lives in nc. pass the gatorade. we dont need no stinkin science. sheesh.
another point says:
The old “head in the sand” syndrome !
Doug says:
Hey folks, this is just the free market of ideas. If there is more demand for an idea, why should “facts” stand in its way? I wonder if the state would be willing to bet its coffers on their predictions? I’ll bet with the scientific data, just for fun – go on, lay your money down!
obxdad says:
[sarcasm]
Wow, who knew global warming effects could be countered by electing anti-science politicians!
I bet we can get the sea level to actually go down if we just put a few more GOP Luddites in office!
Brilliant!
[/sarcasm]
Martin Booth says:
The price of “stupidity” will never be very high because the supply is so great. The price is dropping in Raleigh these days. If these Republican legislative developments had not been confirmed by multiple sources it would be unbelievable. The Republican legislature could take on some other scientific analyses which indicate ultimate trouble such as the dropping supply of Hydrogen to fuel the Sun. Banning the teaching of “evolution” cannot be far off. Where is Clarence Darrow when we need him?
Prince of Peeps says:
Hooray for rational, logical thinking, rather than the speculative hysteria based on PC liberal agenda aimed at scaring folks into calling for the state to jump in and save us all from impending doom. Notice that the “scientist” said “the bill contradicts overwhelming scientific consensus,” not scientific EVIDENCE, something entirely different. The “consensus” is what keeps these guys funded. It is what puts the liberal state in power. It’s what puts various governmental and non-governmental organizations (UN Agenda 21) in control of the people.
Historical evidence is hard fact. Future speculation is not, especially when data is manipulated to provide evidence consistent with their agenda, which has proven to be the case all too often with the prominent “scientific” organizations lately. Their findings, evidence, methods, and conclusions have been debunked on practically a weekly basis over the last few years, yet they continue to spout the same tainted, exaggerated prognostications, pretending that no one heard the refutations. They are losing their credibility, and rightly so. They have switched from being scientists to being politicians, and just like politicians, they will say anything to get the money. We need better scientists and better politicians. Seems we may finally be getting some of both, scientists who are speaking up to refute the Chicken Littles, and politicians who are more interested in the truth and serving the needs of the public rather than in socialist government power. NC needs to follow Alabama’s example, ban the state from dealing with Agenda 21 organizations. Their goal, after all, is our demise.
The facts: There has been no global warming for the last 12-14 years. The ice is being replenished at both poles. Scientific evidence indicates, get this, pay attention, that global warming contributes to increased levels of CO2, not the other way around as the global warming alarmists want us to believe. Other sources, such as increased solar activity, are responsible for our warming. Then, like a global thermostat, increased CO2 actually forms clouds to reflect solar energy away, protecting us from the sun, exactly backwards from what the warming alarmists tell us. In other words, mankind is NOT contributing to global warming, and all these proposed, humongously expensive and restrictive regulations are NOT necessary. It is all cyclical, both short term and long term. The earth warms and it cools. Sea level rises and it falls. If you don’t like what is happening right now, hang around a bit. It will change.
Global warming is all a ruse to get more government control, eventually one-world government. UN Agenda 21 is behind it all. Educate yourselves about this vicious attempt at world domination (largely aimed at knocking the US off it’s pedestal. The rest will fall like dominoes.) Sounds fanatical, but that is what they are all about.
Martin Booth says:
Peeps…..You are just kidding around…..RIGHT? You don’t really believe the “facts” that you posted….CO2 forming clouds…..Really? You do know that clouds are H2O? The scientific community in a worldwide conspiracy….Really? Are you drinking the same water as the Republican legislators? Could you post a peer reviewed source for any of the “facts” which you posted?
Beth Gordon says:
Prince of Peeps knows what’s really happening at all levels of our government. The U.N. has made fools of us for too long. The truth is finally coming out and, Thank God, WE THE PEOPLE ARE TAKING A STAND! The United Nations have incrementally and intricately woven THEIR AGENDA into our lives, our healthcare, what our children are being taught in schools, whether or not we can drive on our beaches, putting farmers out of business to save a minnow to deliberately drive food prices up to make us a poorer country, take God and the Constitution out and even have our local Planning Departments carrying out their Agenda, without being aware of it in many cases! Tea Parties and Concerned Citizen groups are campaigning to STOP AGENDA 21 all over our Country….GET EDUCATED…..Google STOP AGENDA 21…..You will be AMAZED AND ENLIGHTENED!
another point says:
Dearest Prince of Peeps: Have you been to a glacier? Go to Montana and ask the locals. They’ll tell you how much of it has disappeared in the last decade. They’ll also tell you if you want to see the glacier, you better get there soon! That’s the fact — based on EVIDENCE !! Listening to you, you would deny smog if caused by exhaust and NC ocean’s levels of mercury is a myth!
KDHgal says:
Oh, lordy……there’s a conspiracy theorist alive and well right here on the Outer Banks.
Think I’ll agree with the comments before his! The Republican majority in the NC State Legislature (and in other states and Congress)truly scare me. Left to them, our country will be a theocratic plutocracy.
Bill says:
Peeps is blind and irrationally noting a ding on science modelling and forecasting. Science is all around you Peeps. Forecasting and modeling take all forms and much of everyday things Peeps enjoys comes from those efforts.
Though, to take Peeps side in a sense, climate rise and associated sea level rise will take time (though he believes its a fantasy which I do not). This time allows for ADAPTATION which humanity is quite good at.
Thus in an argument parallel to Peeps though not the same, human adaptation will prevent sea level rise from having much of an impact. People will simply locate to higher ground, as we have already seen. Take the Nights of Rodanthe house. It was moved from a place of peril to safety on “higher” ground.
Even low lying areas in the SE Pacific rim, people will adapt. At our core, we are a migratory species.
Prince of Peeps says:
Due to editing, I misspoke about CO2 forming clouds. Warming increases water vapor in the air to form clouds which reflect solar energy back into space, thus cooling the earth. The CO2 that resulted from the warming is then reduced when the earth is cooled. This process was pointed out when the famous hockey stick graph was debunked. This is a cyclical process that has happened many times throughout the ages, long before there was mankind to blame. In fact, at one time CO2 concentrations were 20 times higher than now. The Jurassic Period was 4-5 times higher than now. Anyone seriously wanting to know, Google (I use Bing) “CO2 does not cause global warming.” There is plenty to see. Even Al Gore now admits that CO2 is not responsible for global warming.
The rest I stand by.
As to the glaciers receding in Montana, they have been for thousands of years, since the end of the last ice age. Caused by Bush, Republicans?
Sue says:
Bill: “Though, to take Peeps side in a sense, climate rise and associated sea level rise will take time.”
Well of course. One hundred years is far longer than most people live. Developers can build their houses, get rich, and then croak long before they see the houses wash into the ocean. No good Republican is going to let anything to do with climate change change any of that. Here today, gone tomorrow, live for today, vacuum suck the riches you can and then die. Whoopee!!!
Prince of Peeps says:
Too many people are willing to completely ignore all the evidence that contradicts the so-called “settled science” of global warming. You are willing to ignore the dubious motivations that promote the politically driven agenda that adulterates their scientific method. Your guffaws at the “deniers” betray your bias. You’d rather believe a lie that supports “your side” than to be open-minded enough to hear the truth. Who are the ones with their head in the sand?
@ Bill: What has come out about the global warming alarmists is far more than a “ding on scientific modeling and forecasting.” To some, it is a total refutation of flawed science driven by personal agenda. At the least, it is an opposing opinion equally deserving of respect and consideration. The “settled science” proclamation is a bullying tactic to denigrate, discredit and silence their opposition.
But thanks, Bill, for pointing out the extended time frame involved in sea level rise. Even if we accept their claim of 39″ over the next 100 years (four generations,) that’s a snail’s pace, 3/8″ a year. Grandma in her wheelchair can outrun that tsunami. And that’s if you accept their theory of accelerated rise, which I don’t. The true rate of rise over the last 100 years is 8″, 1/5 of what they are calling for in the future. The tide charts also show that the rate of rise for the past 30-40 years has slowed slightly from the 100-year rate, possibly indicating that the sine curve may be peaking, and a reversal may be coming. Speculation, sure, just as they are speculating 39″ rise, but at least it is based on past hard fact, not “best estimates” that the pseudo-scientists are divining from their faulty models.
The alarmists are frantically urging that we “must do something now, even if it is wrong.” There are numerous motives other than science driving their Chicken Little analyses. If we wait a couple of years to look at other opinions, other solutions, what real harm will be done? The alarmists are like pushy car salesmen claiming, “You must buy today!” because they know that if you wait to think about it, you probably won’t buy their pitch.
To those scoffing at conspiracy theories, laugh at your own peril. UN Agenda 21 is already here, and all across the country, influencing businesses, local governments, school curriculum, etc. Every aspect of our life is being controlled, nudged, influenced toward their socialist agenda. Just recently the Currituck BOC outsourced their county planning to an Agenda 21 NGO. Instead of the local elected officials doing their job, unelected outsiders not responsible to the people will be calling the shots, telling Currituckers what they will and won’t do. Agenda 21 is behind the business of closing the beach in Hatteras for the plover, and limiting beach vehicle access. They are behind the fishing regulations and limitations forced on everyone. They are behind the laws that require housing developers to include high density, low income housing if they want to get a permit for regular housing. They were behind the move that tried to eliminate teaching about the founding of our nation, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Revolutionary and Civil Wars from 11th grade US History classes. Instead they intended to spend that time proselytizing our children about the rise of labor unions, various civil rights movements, and the victimization of America by capitalism.
Agenda 21 is here, folks. They’re everywhere. They’re sly, sneaky and stealthy, and they are doing a snow job on you easily led mullets. Do you want the UN sovereign over the US? The British Prime Minister before Winston Churchill, Neville Chamberlain, a pacifist, naysayed the ones who warned against Hitler, too. How did that work out?
You don’t have to take this Outer Banker’s opinion. Google “UN Agenda 21″ for yourself. Pay special attention to who is signed onto this attempt at a world coup. You will be surprised. You will be shocked. If you are honest, you will change your mind.
Prince of Peeps says:
Most of the support for global warming on this thread seems to be based more on political alignment, rather than science, much the same as with the “scientists” who support it. Democrats good, Republicans evil!
Prince of Peeps says:
THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT IS ABOUT TO END
Here it comes! http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/the-world-as-we-know-it-is-about-to-end/ The next big push for Agenda 21 and environmentalism. They know that the public is wising up to them, so they are pulling out all the stops, predicting mass extinctions. A collaboration of 22 “scientists” has prepared a terrifying report for the Rio+20 convention, a report that is admittedly “based on guesswork.” It doesn’t have to be true, because it is so scary it must be heeded. Rio is where UN Agenda 21 was spawned in 1992. There will be frantic flailing of the arms and spittle flying everywhere, I can assure you.
another point says:
Hey Peeper: You are the FIRST one who started drawing the sides of political alignment by slamming liberals. You DO like to talk out of both sides of your mouth. No one else has referred to political sides.
MichaelAP5 says:
I’m buying up futures in aluminum. Looks like we’ll need plenty for foil hats! Maybe black paint, too. We’ll have to paint all those helicopters.
another point says:
And by the way, Peep, you can thank liberals for cleaning the air (rather than everyone living in the smog that hung over L.A. and such), preserving land so future generations can enjoy it, striving for equality of ALL God’s people (not just the self-chosen few). I read what Wikipedia said about Agenda 21. You feel threatened? Too bad.
ekim says:
@ peeps dont wast your time with these LIBERAL ENVIRO WACKOS BOZOS LEMINGS, They make fools of themselvs daily! You whining LIBRALS think the water is rising Be true leaders an get the HELL OUT before you drown! No really everyone here banging PEEPS get out before you DROWN!SHOW US YOUR TRUE BELIEVERS
Bill Price says:
National and International media have been criticizing the NC General Assembly, by joking that a Draft NC Law intends to stop Sea Level from rising or accelerating .
Real funny.
Obviously, no one disputes that Sea Level has been rising since the last Ice Age – very slowly; and certainly, if Sea Level Rise (SLR) is or will accelerate rapidly, we need to know about it, and plan for it; but , in short, it seems that the General Assembly want’s actual proof , instead of using an Ouija Board to predict acceleration of Sea Level Rise.
The issue arose because the CRC, Science Panel (SP) and scientists said,
- SL has been rising 18 inches / 100y ,
- 1 foot of SLR would inundate up to 2 miles of tidelands,
and then, using UN IPCC guesstimates, jumped to proposing Planning Policy for 39” SLR by 2100.
However, there are Real world concerns with the SP’s science:
- A visual comparison of post 1850’s US Government Coast Survey surveys of NC tidelands, with recent surveys, don’t show 4 miles ( 150 y @ 18 inches / 100y ), or even 1 mile of inundation.
- Validity of tide gage data presented by the SP was found to be suspect.
- the SP’s Literature Search, was a one sided selection of Pro AGW and Pro SLR reports, with no other viewpoints presented.
When asked about this, the SP , scientists, and an educational institution have refused to answer questions, declined to do the studies, and refused to participate in an Open Public Forum.
Admittedly, I have received a maelstrom of studies on erosion, but none definitively answer the question. Why not ? IF a comparative study of inundation has been done, it should be easy enough to post the pages for everyone to see.
As no one is omniscient, and being responsible to protect the property rights of all the citizens of NC, it looks like the General Assembly is just saying, we need comprehensive verifiable science, before making important public policy decisions.
Bill Price Pine Knoll Shores
Martin Booth says:
Peeps….Some data to chew on….and YOU can confirm the numbers….the approximately 7 billion people in the world are burning about 85 million barrels of oil every day…in addition they burn about 320 billion cubic feet of natural gas per day….they also burn 8 billion tons of coal per year….this produces more than 30 billion tons of CO2 annually…and yet you say man has no impact.
It seems to me that the UN can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. Conspiracy theories about a UN “takeover” are nonsense.
Prince of Peeps says:
@ another point: Please reread posts #2,3,5 & 6, all which preceded mine. Denigration of the GOP was directly stated in #5 & 6, and implied in #2 & 3, so I was NOT the “FIRST one who started drawing the sides of political alignment.”
Furthermore, do I read you correctly, that you support UN Agenda 21? That you DON’T feel threatened by it? You support herding all mankind into cities to live in high-density housing, and returning the countryside to wilderness? You support teaching Marxism to our children? You support all property being owned by the state, no individual owning personal property? You support the redistribution of wealth on a global basis, giving up America’s high standard of living to spread our wealth that we earned to all the other nations of the world? I don’t mean just helping out poorer countries. They want to reduce our standard of living to theirs (their words.) You support state owned businesses rather than free enterprise? You support centralized government control of everything we do and where we are allowed to go? Do you believe that human beings are simply organisms no different from the rest of nature, and that the needs of nature may supersede the needs of man (can you say “plover?”) Do you believe that we DO NOT have unalienable rights granted by our Creator? That our rights are given to us by man, and can be taken away by man on any whim? If you support all these things, I say you are in a very tiny minority of Americans. If you don’t, then you are simply ignorant of what Agenda 21 is and what their goals are.
If you read what Wikipedia had to say about Agenda 21, you read nothing. It had only a few nondescript sentences that really said nothing. Go to this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujuLC682Azg for a more in depth evaluation. Follow this link http://www.offthegridnews.com/2012/03/22/agenda-21-in-one-easy-lesson/ to a simple one-page primer about Agenda 21. Finally, to sweeten the pot, here is a link for all you diehard Democrats, — “Democrats Against Agenda 21.” http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/ I challenge all of you to educate yourselves, and then decide if you want to come back in such a smug, mocking manner, or if you want to do something to stop this threat to our American way of life.
Prince of Peeps says:
You like UN Agenda 21? Meet your new (age) religion. Nature worship. http://www.americanalertnews.com/onemorninginseptember2001.htm Forget about “separation of church and state” or “freedom of religion.” This is it.
junkman says:
Colbert just nailed it on this one. The NC politicos are drawing a line in the sand that will soon be washed away.
Prince of Peeps says:
@ Martin Booth: You’re putting words into my mouth. I never said that man had no effect, but I do believe that it is miniscule compared to nature. What I did say was that there are studies that say CO2 does not cause warming, but rather warming causes increased CO2 levels. (Search “CO2 does not cause global warming.”) Warming comes first and is not the result of added CO2 in the atmosphere, just the opposite of what the warming alarmists (and snake oil salesmen like Al Gore who want to sell cap and trade for huge profits) want to make us believe. Now Al Gore has even admitted that CO2 is NOT responsible for the majority of man-made warming.
“Gore now blames soot and methane for the majority of global warming, leaving the door open for a tax on livestock, a tax on meat, a tax on milk, and on and on until he changes his mind again and blames another culprit so that too can be taxed.” – http://www.prisonplanet.com/al-gore-admits-co2-does-not-cause-majority-of-global-warming.html
(BTW the article about finding 11 scientific errors in Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth” is very interesting reading.) http://www.globalwarming.nottinghamshiretimes.co.uk/graphproves1.html
What I DO maintain is that global warming hysteria is a tool of leftist Marxists promoting Agenda 21. Martin, I agree with your assessment of the UN, and don’t believe they could organize a successful cake walk. Their place in this unholy charade is to provide a place and a covering for the Marxists who DO have the organizational skills and the patience to pull this off, and they are doing a bang-up job so far. But now as more of the public is catching onto their scheme, they will have to morph into something new, another thing they are very adept at doing, staying one step ahead. Follow the three links I posted previously. I believe this will enlighten you to the reality and the severity of this movement. After reading those three articles, let me know if they affected your opinion any at all.
It takes a vigilant public to guard our freedom from these thieves who would rob us of our souls. Would you like to see America become another China, or worse, North Korea? Would you like to live in either of those countries. You will if Agenda 21 gets their way.
Sue says:
That video is hilarious!
ekim LOVES PEEPS says:
@ BOOTH take your libral head out of the sand, PEEPS dont argue with these IDIOTS, They are not in touch with whats going on because they hate this country! There sittin around waiting on their OBAMA $$$$!!!
Chaz says:
Prince of Peeps,
Are you “the little bird sitting on the backyard fence, telling the world what I think, whether they’re listening or not”??
kittyhawker says:
Again, my apologies to anyone who is reading this and thinks that the tea-bagging nonsense spewn by “Prince of Peeps” and “Ekim/mike” is representative of the majority of forward, progressive and mostly reasonable Outer Bankers. . No, we are not all like this in the Outer Banks. No, the world is not ending. No, it does no good to try and reason with unreasonable people. Thank you Mr. Booth for trying, and my hat goes off to Steven Colbert for a wonderfully funny and honest portrayal of our republican majority in office in NC, majority for now at least. Peace.
Frank Tursi says:
The N.C. Coastal Federation has a contest going on its Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/NC-Coastal-Federation/185345054061) for other absurd solutions to pressing state problems. The federation hopes a state senator will turn the best ones into amendments when the state Senate votes on the bill.
ken says:
Thank you PEEPS, you keep stating the facts!!! the “Sheople” will follow the propaganda machine, just like the Germans followed Hitler. History is repeating itself right before our eyes and the “educated ignorant” can’t see past their useless degrees.
chaser says:
Another reason why every one in the world thinks NC is full of dumb hillbillies, denounce science! Wonder why the US is 30 something in the world when you make up laws like this.
Duke Geraghty says:
This link is a guest OP-ED in yesterday’s Wilmington Star concerning NC20′s position on accelerated Seal Level Rise. It is a good read.
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20120610/ARTICLES/120619986/1108/opinion?Title=Guest-editorial-NC-20-wants-a-scientific-dialogue
Prince of Peeps says:
@ obxdad: You call me a conspiracy nut, I call you an ignorant dupe. Obviously you haven’t been paying much attention to the news over the last couple of years. You seem to be unaware of your revered “scientists” getting busted for creating faulty forecasting models, for “tricking” them to make them say what they want them to say. Obviously you haven’t heard about the email scandal involving the IPCC and others. Obviously you haven’t heard about the resignations due to the scandalous behavior at some of these organizations. Obviously you haven’t heard about the uproar from thousands of legitimate scientists who claim these doom and gloom predictions are exaggerated BS. Obviously you haven’t heard about the faked glacier photos published to “prove” global warming. You HAVE heard, perhaps, the hysteria over the ice shelf breaking off in Antarctica, and the dire consequences that will bring, but I bet you haven’t heard what they won’t tell you, that the snow over the entire Antarctic continent is BUILDING glaciers for a net gain of captured water, and that the Arctic ice cap has been thickening for years. You probably haven’t heard that there has been NO global warming in the northern hemisphere for well over a decade, and a slight cooling in the southern hemisphere. So contrary to your claim that “(the Democrats) come far closer to using the scientific method when making decisions,” they actually come far closer to using political manipulation than the scientific method. It is the “deniers” who are using science to debunk the PC prognostication.
And I bet, in your fervent quest for knowledge, you haven’t followed one of the links I have posted, even in the spirit of being fair and balanced. You’d rather just remain ignorant to the truth than take the chance of having to change your mind.
Impending disaster due to global warming has largely been debunked. However with these grant-seeking “scientists” continuing to tout the same debunked lies over and over, the liberal media backing their play, reporting only one side (in spite of it having been debunked,) and the environmentalist Marxists pushing the disaster scenario to facilitate big government stepping in to take over, it is difficult to break through with the truth to some of the thick skulls full of mush. If you would rather believe their lies, to be duped by these snake oil salesmen, you are free to do so. Five years from now, ten years from now, when you see your folly, no one will care what you thought. What you mistakenly thought will have no bearing on what actually happens. But one thing will matter. If we allow these environmentalist charlatans to have their way, it will affect the way we live in the future. (Everyone in Hatteras and Ocracoke, pack your bags. You’re leaving.) And it will cost us all a bundle, wrecking our economy, much worse than it is now. When you think of your children’s future, think of Communist China.
Mocking the politicians, mostly GOP, for taking a slow and reasoned approach to this issue, is the worst political partisanship. It doesn’t matter a bit to you bashers whether they are right or not. Your hatred and loathing for the right would cut off your nose to spite your face. So sit back and laugh with Colbert. Just leave your wallet and your future on the front door stoop. They’ll come by to pick it up.
another point says:
If we had followed GOP politicians for taking a slow and reasoned approach, we would still have the burning Cuyahoga River, smog over all the major cities, extremely harmful pesticides all over our nation and in our water supply, etc. You’ve made it quite clear, Peep, that you are an extreme. Health be with you . . . and yours.
obxdad says:
Peeps, sorry for calling you nuttier than squirrel poop… which is why they deleted my comment I guess?
Anyway, I actually did follow the links… gave me good laugh.
There actually IS plenty to worry about… but follow the money, it always leads to the true problems. I grew up around D.C. politics, my Uncle was a good friend of H.W. Bush and served in his cabinet.
Believe me, I do stay informed. Hope I don’t sound as crazy as some when I get old and start ranting…
Col. Sanders says:
I am so relieved to know that the ocean won’t come up and wash away all those KDH chickens. Excuse me, what was that?
Stan Clough says:
Doesn’t anyone remember in the late 1970′s when the “scientists” were all in agreement that the earth was cooling, and we were headed for an ICE AGE ???
I praise the NC elected officials for logic and sensibility in this bill. The “environmental” lawyers and various groups pushing global warming and adgenda 21 DO NOT WANT US TO CONTINUE TO LIVE ON THE OUTER BANKS !!! That is a fact. It started with Hatteras, closing beaches, fishing regulation, a new bridge to Hatteras, environmental studys on and on.
The State of North Carolina needs to maintain its rights in Coastal North Carolina and stop federal government intervention. The State is also guilty of over-regulation of most everything. It is almost always about creating government positions by politicians for supporters, who will be voters.
We need to stop over regulating everything. We need to reduce the size of government, federal, state, county and town. Anyone raising taxes right now is out of their minds and out of touch with reality.
It is time for Dare County to form a unified government incorporating all towns in it. It will not be popular with government workers, so politicians must be brave and do the right thing, even if it means one term. I truely that will enable Dare County to control its own destiny.
Prince of Peeps says:
@ obxdad, and others: I think the deletions were due to the server switch by Voice. Several posts, including one of my own, were deleted. I don’t think anyone has gotten out of line here yet. Biased, definitely, but not out of line.
Thank you for reading the links. I think the problems that many have regarding finding the truth are: 1) political bias. They’ll never believe anything presented by the other side, even if Jesus came down from heaven and presented it to them. 2) People are being misled as to who the scientists are and who the politicians are. It is my assertion that the global warming adherents who have cooked the models, (“tricking” is their term and they have admitted to doing this,) to produce the results they want rather than the accurate truth. These “scientists” who tell only one side of the story, showing only collaborating facts and ignoring anything contradictory, do so with an agenda. They’ll even go so far as to publish faked pictures to prove their point. They have formed their PC conclusion and THEN find science to back it up, even if they have to fabricate it. Not exactly the scientific method. These “scientists” are really politicians who will say anything to get their money (a DC political habit, as you so accurately pointed out.) The politicians who are putting the brakes on to halt this runaway hoax are the ones using actual science to get to the bottom of it. IMHO, those mocking the GOP for their efforts care absolutely nothing about the truth, but rather want only to burn their hated enemy. Anyone who cared about knowing the truth would want to know both sides before they could have an informed opinion. I have presented several links to other articles. The mockers have presented nothing but unfounded ridicule.
Bob says:
From what I can tell:There are no brave politicians in this county and everyone is hypocrite! Good night!
obxdad says:
Well Peeps, at least we agree on something – money is the problem.
However, there are a LOT more people with money to lose if we have to start a more serious effort to limit global emissions than money to gain; think about which side Big Oil supports.
I’m actually on the fence when it comes to carbon taxes and whatnot – I think they may have some impact, but maybe not enough to justify the economic pain of trying too hard on just a couple of fronts.
The biggest problems will be in the developing world.
Rather than limit emissions by rules and force, we should be offering huge monetary prizes for better power technologies that would make sense for all humanity to use instead of burning oil.
The world is getting warmer, and the water is getting higher; we should be focusing on what to do, rather than sticking our heads in the sand and pretend it’s not happening.
I don’t lose sleep over it though, it’s going to be a problem for our children and grandchildren to handle.
I’d much rather people pay attention to the One Trillion dollars we spend a year on “security”. Talk about pouring money down a rat hole with nothing to show for it. That’s like two thousand Solyndras for those who only speak Tea Party. Two thousand Solyndras… every year… keeping us safe from… Canada? Mexico? Who’s going to invade us again?
Nags Head Bob says:
LI guess you people don’t see what has already happened on Hatteras Island. That’s what the law is about. If Riggs and some of the others have their way, funding for hwy 12 will be cut off. If it is, Hatteras Island will be cut off, along with a third of the occupancy taxes and half the property taxes. Keep towing the chicken little line the global warning nuts are giving you and Dare county will not even be able to maintain the schools north of the bridge, much less anything south of it. We already can’t walk or drive on half our beaches and you guys want to give them the other half. I know some of you posters must live here on the outer banks. Some of you might even be natives. You better open your eyes before it’s too late….
Nags Head Bob says:
@another point. The irony of your last post is that without the GOP we would still have slavery. Slavery comes in many forms.
Island Safety says:
If you drive to/from Hatteras you’ve noticed in the last few years that there is water on the sides whether it has rained or not. This is upwelling. It has increased. Tends to make me believe there is a rise in the sea. Regardless, as long as it is my taxpayer dollars providing the insurance that the developers depend on to protect their investments I say stop now. FEMA should stop insuring anything new built in a dicey area and certainly anything built as a result of denying science. Most of Peeps’ proof of underhanded scientists has been debunked. Just hasn’t been reported on the reactionary blogs or Faux news. Truth, reality, science are more complex than the lately enshrined ‘common sense’ approach espoused by the paranoid far right.
bbc says:
funny, at the jetties at the lighthouse in buxton the high and low tide lines are the same as 30 years ago so sea level rise must be in selected areas.
“Proof is nothing but a collection of opinions that match your own.”
Sue says:
Island Safety, I don’t understand FEMA allotting welfare protection either to builders in “dicey areas”. Perhaps someone could explain why these handouts at taxpayer expense are not more commonly frowned upon.
I'll take the science says:
Prince and pals,
It looks as if we have a new agenda. Agenda PP. Similar, but slightly different, than the UN’s Agenda 22. You speak volumes Prince, however, you may miss the point yourself. You are so obsessed with your own distrust of humanity that you miss the real point. North Carolina looks like a stain on the underpants of humanity. We are in a deficit shortfall, budgets are being cut daily, but our legislature has the time and money to debate a bill limiting sea level rise. The overwhelming majority of scientists still believe that sea level will speed up over the next century. Look it up, debate it, deny it, wish it away with your favorite media and YouTube videos, but it does not change the vast amount of evidence. Even you, who scorns the liberal media, who by their own right have an agenda, seek out your own sources to solidify your own version of the “truth”. Just because you can find it on the Internet, it doesn’t make it true or factual. Every commentary and fact is slanted to someone’s favor. Even yours and mine. Inevitably, we will be judged, and North Carolina is taking theirs now. We have somehow managed to cut education in this state while debating how to pass legislation that seeks to maintain and advance more development on the coast. We are not blind to the state legislature’s agenda either. They have Agenda $$, again similar to Agenda 21 and Agenda PP. Everybody’s agenda is the same. Make people follow you so that you can benefit in some manner.
The facts on the Outer Banks are simple. We fortified a line in the sand in 1928 with the CCC projects by erecting unnatural sand dunes. Instead of constructing homes on the sound side away from storms, we moved to the oceanfront. Sand migration across the barrier islands was limited and island migration was slowed. It has caught up a few times on the oceanfront during large storms and we have seen mass wasting events like that during the Ash Wednesday Storm and the Nor’Easters of 1972. However, on the back of the islands we ignored the fact that sand supply was cut off and we filled and bulkheaded marsh for more development. In turn we have delayed the inevitable. Other contributors have eluded to the facts, but they don’t realize that what they see as sea level rise is actually sea level management. Either way, we are not going to win.
I too have an agenda, I call it Agenda retirement. I want to sell my beautiful canalfront home and buy a sailboat. I hope to do this before sea level either rises or the island gets swallowed from both sides. Once safely retired to a sailboat, i could care less what sea level does. My children can not come with me. Conspiracy theories aside, sea level is rising, and here on the Outer Banks, we have more to deal with. No more than the rest of the world because we are not special. More than 50% of the world’s population lives within 100 miles of the coast. All inhabited coasts have been damaged by human interaction.
Humans do have have an impact on the environment. Do you remember that hole in the ozone that was debated by scientists and governments around the world? We stopped using CFCs and the hole got smaller. How about DDT? Who wanted to listen to a woman tell men that a chemical was killing Bald Eagles because it thinned their shells and the mothers would crush them. Crazy, but monumental.
If scientists are wrong, bummer. But what if they are right? Do we pay for the homes that get flooded because people believed the wrong agenda. None of us belong on a barrier island, and if we do, then we need to accept the responsibility and not ask for money when our homes get flooded. We know the risk of living in this dynamic environment. We fell for the sales pitch. Since when is it the legislature’s job to further the agenda and say that the risk is minimalized. Have they put some money away, accepted the responsibility for the potential loss, or will they cut the budget to lower education standards to the point that we need real estate instead of leaders?
Who’s agenda do you believe? Peep’s or your own.
bbc says:
i guess FEMA also needs to cut off funds to all towns devastated by tornadoes, river flooding, wildfires, mudslides and other acts of nature. seems only fair. those people chose to live and build in those areas so screw them also. hope you set sail before the tsunami comes.
by the way, we’ve never asked for one cent of YOUR tax dollar to help us rebuild after a storm (emily), it all came out of pocket as we had it.
Island Safety says:
Forgive me, I misspoke, did not mean FEMA. I meant NFIP. The government’s insurance plan for these otherwise uninsurable projects. If there were no insurance much would not be built. As it is, there is guaranteed cash if you build a mega house even though you know it will only last a few years. Realtors know the drill. It’s a common strategy…you get nothing for losing the land to the ocean, build a house you know will fall to the ocean and our taxes will bail you out. Why do you think private insurers are out of the market? It’s a losing proposition. So why are we supporting it? Those that have should of course be able to keep, but new projects make no fiscal sense except for the developers’ bank account. Probably offshore!
obxdad says:
Well said I’ll take the science!
Sue says:
I’ll Take the Science, the sad, and yes evil part is, the legislature, at least in part, probably does understand and believe the science. But their concern is making money NOW from the coffers of developers who insure their re-election.
Don’t you see how educated truth-seekers are dangerous to this goal? Educated truth-seekers who aren’t interesting in making tons of money are a threat. Cut off education funding, and voila! Another problem group is shot down and taken care of. Stripped down unto it’s barest form, (if there is a such thing a evil) you have evil’s definition laid before your very eyes.
Sue says:
Hmmm….I guess this explains why America’s east coast is more vulnerable.
http://news.yahoo.com/rising-sea-level-puts-us-atlantic-coast-risk-171554622.html