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Dare budget proposal outlines EMS changes
EMS shifts would be reworked. (Rob Morris)
Probably the most contentious piece of the proposed spending package is the EMS budget, where employees would be assigned new schedules and receive less overtime pay.
County Manager Bobby Outten presented his proposal to the Board of Commissioners Monday. Coming in at $100.85 million, the general fund budget is 0.84 percent more than last year’s.
Schools would get a $402,360 boost in local funding with a budget of $19.46 million. That represents $3,978 per pupil. The county would kick in an additional $838,837 for resources officers and school nurses.
Converting the MedFlight helicopter to meet FAA standards so that the county can can charge insurance companies and Medicare would mean hiring three more paramedics by Sept. 1 at a cost of $237,663.
Slightly less than half a million dollars will go toward start-up costs plus salaries and benefits when the new fiscal year starts July 1. Two pilots and a mechanic will be added.
To cut overtime, two EMS positions would be unfrozen and ambulances would be deployed based on call volume. Now, Outten said, 10 trucks generally have been on duty at all times.
Following past trends, trucks would number eight during offseason and off hours and 12 during peak seasonal periods under the new budget plan. Shifts of 24 hours on and 48 hours off for crews would be reworked.
“The current practice is not sustainable,” Outten said in his budget message. “It has resulted in our staff being overworked and burned out. It has caused high attrition rates, low morale, and increased liability risk to both the employees and the County.”
Outten has said that overtime in Emergency Medical Services has run over budget for several years.
EMS workers will still be able to count on overtime, but not as much as they receive working 56 hours a week under the current schedule. Many have expressed concerns at what might amount to as much as a 10 percent pay cut and scheduling that will preclude holding other jobs.
Outten’s proposal calls for the tax rate to remain at 28 cents per $100 of value.
A public hearing on the budget has been scheduled for June 4 at 10 a.m.
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Mike says:
The way the article is written it sounds like the EMS budget is 100.85 million dollars. This is NOT THE CASE!!!! The Ems budget is more around 6-7.5 million It would be nice if you could report the actual number so people will NOT think the EMS budget is 100.85 million
dare says:
“The current practice is not sustainable,” Outten said
Perhaps a percentage decrease from one of his two county salaries would result in a sustainable solution…
Joe Paramedic says:
Bobby Outten is so out of touch with reality. Must be his salary of well over $200,000. We are not burned out and overworked because of our 24 hour shifts. We are burned out because they froze 3 positions and did not fill any vacancies after they froze those positions. We are way understaffed. Also another correction; we average 9 ambulances per shift for the entire county. It is not unusual that 3 ambulances are out of the state on medical transports for several hours at a time either. As far as peak times, emergencies know no peak times. So when an SUV packed with a family gets into a wreck on non peak hours and there are only 8 ambulances staffed and three are on transports in Virginia, who is going to take care of the 7 critically injured parents and children? Common sense people. Get some.
Joe Paramedic says:
Oh by the way, overtime pay has gotten out of hand recently because to meet minimum staffing levels paramedics are called in on overtime to staff ambulances because we are so short staffed and believe it or not people get sick. Morale is low because of being short staffed, working harder, getting benefits reduced or cut completely and being treated like crap by administration. If you’re never shown appreciation for a job well done or don’t reward good work, then why go above and beyond?
Mike says:
I can’t remember the last time EMS had 10 trucks running the whole shift. Not so sure on that fact.
Old Timer says:
I have worked here for over 20 years, I love my job, the money excellent I worked here when we didn’t get over time, when we had bad equipment when taxes was a lot less and I stayed. When all the winers leave I will still the good work!be here, I will still love my job. Commissioners THANK YOU keep up
Another County Employee says:
I have worked for the county for 10years now, my benefits have too been cut 3 kids a wife car and house payment all on $28,950.00 ayear (yes I live in the county) pay taxes I can make it. I don’t get over time from what I’ve been told most ems people make my salary in over time. I bet half the people in my department would love 1/3 of that over time. What about it fellow employees don’t y’all want a peace of that action?
Mike says:
It should also be noted that EMS has taken a cut in benefits and no cost of living increase for several years in a row. Why is EMS always the first ones to get cut? EMS also gets no scheduled holidays off (unless your shift is lucky enough to fall on it).
As of now EMS gets every third weekend off. With the “new” schedule, 80% of the EMS staff gets no full weekend off (try to schedule your family around that).
This “new” schedule also adds 33% to their transportation cost of just getting to work.
The “new” schedule is not conducive to those with a family and children in school.
The “new” schedule inhibits EMS families from earning an extra income with a second job or business.
There are viable solutions to this budget problem, that have not been brought to the table. Or only glanced at and then shelved. Are we valuing our EMS as we should? If do not feel they are worth the money they are getting paid, could you at least say a prayer for them when you here the sirens go by.
KDH Rezident Evil says:
It’s not that you expect to have 10 trucks running all at the same time, nor are all these trucks concentrated in one area. They are spread out across our (very long) county and sometimes have to be moved around like chess pieces to maximize coverage when some of the units are tied up. You prepare for the worst case scenarios, which sometimes happens, and hope for the best.
That said, all the comments about the crappy financial deal county employees (those who are not Bobby Outten) have been putting up with for years cannot be understated. They have seen benefits cut, positions frozen, and salaries have barely budged in years. Curiously, demands for professionalism, expertise, competence, and dedication have steadily risen. Sadly, the Dare County Board of Commissioners would rather go on taxpayer funded junkets, hunt bears, and make sweet deals that benefit their personal businesses, than help address gross inequities affecting the very people they count on to make them look good.
Shame.
charlie says:
Oct 4, 2011 Voice article: New chopper adds $675,000 for extra maintenance. Now this article adds $237,000 for 3 EMTS. Expense for 2 new pilots and mechanic are also mentioned in the article. Premise of new chopper was to be able to charge insurance companies. How does the income versus expenses look now?
Ekim says:
How long are we going to play this GAME!
Richard Marlin says:
Mr. Outten, am I going to need to use that “CLUSTER$&@#”
word again ?
Chief 42
Joe Paramedic says:
I have got to get financial consulting from another county employee. How can you support a family of 5 on $29,500 a year? You must be on every available form of public assistance available and live in a mobile home. I have to work 3 jobs and still struggle to pay my bills. I don’t live an extravagant lifestyle or own my own home.
john says:
the moral is low with the all the county employees! the employees should join forces instead of picking on different departments.
You know says:
Well there you go
Another county employee says:
Joe you need to have your wife help nor just stay home. I do not live in a mobile home I built my own. Its called living within your means.
Matt says:
One thing I’ve seen no mention of (unless is missed something)…Is Dare EMS currently funded entirely by tax revenue or are you also billing for services? Happy EMS week!
Joe Paramedics Wife says:
You people are all crazy on here. First of all Another county employee. I do work and we do live with in our means. When you are hired some where you are told you are going to make a certin amout of money that is what you learn to live off of. So if the county came to you and told you you were going to take home 11% less of your 29,500 could you live? Do you wake up in the middle of the night and save a kid? Do you spend hours studing to keep up to date? Do you miss your kids important events in there life? Cause my husband does. He missed our sons graduation cause he was saving someones life. So I would appericiate some respect from you people. Someday you or your family will need a medic. So you better watch yourself.
You know who says:
Imagine that
NagsHead2 says:
Joe Paramedic’s wife,
If you want folks to take you seriously and support your husband’s position, check your spelling and don’t lodge idol threats.
Ekim says:
Joe Paramedic WIFE! You people get real high on this nobility thing , There are many many Business people on the OBX who make family sacrifices EVERYDAY! GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE! You took the job knowing IT PAYS CRAP ! THE TAX PAYERS GOT NOTHING LEFT!!! Sounds like the EMTs higher up need to be tightened UP!
Fyi says:
Except for a certain few, things are tough for county employees. I have talked to some deputies who have said they have been with the county for a few years and are several thousands of dollars a year behind the starting salaries of the local police departments. I don’t understand how Dare county can justify having the highest paid positions in the state when other employees are such disproportionally lower in their positions.
Fyi says:
Meant to say certain positions were the highest paid in the state.
Tina O'Neal says:
When the hard working EMT’s save someone you love from dying, then tell me their budget and benefits should be cut! These good folks work very hard at what they do and are entitled to a working wage, not wage cuts. As far as I am concerned, they definantly need a raise.
County family says:
Just think about it. If they do it to one department and get away with it. Don’t you think they might start doing it to other departments? So instead of tearing each other down we should be coming together to fight it. Food for thought.
Brian says:
Hey NagsHead2,
I don’t think Joe’s wife threatened to beat anyone with a statue of a deity or Clay Aiken for that matter…
Brian says:
That being said, government services pay is always going to be an issue. Joe’s wife makes the point that they do live within their means but that the choices necessary to do so become increasingly more difficult.
Fair enough.
However if it does become to difficult to maintain then who will blame you when you leave?
I won’t. I may not pay more for a replacement either because once you start down the track of “you need me so pay me or I’m gone…” towns, counties, states and nations go bankrupt.
Just because a certain level of service has become expected does not mean it’s sustainable.
Would I hire a couple EMT’S in lieu of one county commissioner?
Oh yes.
In fact I’d rather trade a slew of public officials for more police, fire, rescue, maintenance and most importantly, garbage personnel.
I guess I'm stupid says:
I’m just curious why is it whenever there are budget issues the powers to be never want to cut there own salaries. They have no problem in taking food from everyone else. I was always taught that you take care of the people that take care of you. I know if I’m cutting my employees salary then I’m cutting my own too. That’s called good leadership and good ethics. “I will do without before my kids do” that applies to management as well!!!!!!!
Appled teacher says:
Counyt family where was all this “lets unnite and suport” about five yeas ago when the teachers cut cut hard? Not one EMTcame out to fightor support us, maybe there thought was “be quite or they will see how much overtime we make” no I think I’ll sit back and support this cut.
KDH Rezident Evil says:
@NagsHead2: “…check your spelling and don’t lodge idol threats.”
And when you’re correcting another person’s grammar and spelling, you probably should check your own first. It’s “idle” threats. “Idol” threats would be threats against, say, the Easter Island statues, or perhaps Clay Aiken.
Yes I Know Who Says says:
I am one of the emts that is getting the pay cut. You can call me a whiner all you want and say I should just take it and still be thankful I have a job. To that end I am thankful I still have a job but I also have the right to disagree with what the county is doing to our department. As stated earlier by someone else, when I was offered my job with the county it was for my current salary and the OT pay. We are scheduled to work every third day and that equals 2912 hours a year or 56 hours a week. I accepted the offer. I was not told that in a few years my schedule or pay would be changed. If you work over 40 hours do you not expect to be paid overtime or do you do it for regular pay? This new schedule will now make us work more days a year for less money and adds to the expense of us getting to work. Another cut if I am scheduled to work a 53.5 hour week and I get sick I can only use 40 hours of sick leave thus causing me to lose 13.5 hours of pay so now I have even lost more. If the 8:30-5 county employees call out sick their pay is not affected, they will still get the same check but not emts, so explain how that is fair. I am sorry that so many of you feel that we are over paid. Every one of you chose what profession you wanted to be in as did I. I am certified by the state and have spent many hours learning my profession and I must continue to get training hours every year to maintain my certification. I would venture to say that when you go to the doctor’s office or an attorney’s office you do not tell them that they are over paid. In closing all across the US this is EMS week so to my fellow emt’s have a great week and be safe. To everyone else I hope you have a safe and fun Memorial day weekend.
County family says:
Apple teacher
I wish I would have known you guys were going throught the same thing. I would have been there supporting you. I think teachers, fireman, police and Ems are all under payed. But again I say if we all fight back then maybe this won’t happen to anyone else. Cause in this world where prices are going up who can afford to have there pay go down?
Joe Paramedic says:
I did not hear about teachers pay being cut years back. If I did I would have supported you. I have much respect for the teachers in this county. Another profession which is underpaid. You do a great job and it shows. You are the reason we have the best schools in the state.
NagsHead2 says:
I’ll admit my error and gladly take my licks. Point made EV.
Dare Taxpayer says:
You are not entitled to what I earn
Ekim says:
Bottom line, with the BENEFITS yall get you do just fine, Its TIME TO CUT THE FAT! IN ALL THE COUNTIES!
KDH Rezident Evil says:
Mike,
What fat? It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and lob cliche grenades, but if you had the ability to trim the budget, what would you cut back on? You work in the private sector: I assume you can raise rates and prices whenever you need to (competition might keep them to a certain reasonable level, depending on what you offer.) Except for elected officials, government employees can’t give themselves raises and, the fact remains, the county employees (and teachers) have been getting hammered along with everyone else during the recession.
Maybe the county should give every county employee a week long furlough at the same time. That’d be an interesting taste of medicine.
private sector says:
Do you people think anyone is the private sector has gotten a raise in last 4 years? Everyone is struggling! If you have a job you’re lucky. people who work for the government need to realize the taxes and fees paid by the private sector pays their freakin’ salaries. In this kind of economy its ridiculous to think we can afford to pay more, we’re paying enough! If its not good enough look for another job or career. No one is forced to work anywhere, if you don’t like it or cannot afford to live on the pay then look for another line of work.I think we’re all tapped out here. Enough!
Joe Paramedic says:
I am tired of hearing “if you have a job you are lucky”. There are plenty of jobs out there. I own a small business and have been advertising for help for months and haven’t had but a few applicants show up. Unemployment in Dare may be 20%, but it’s not because there is no opportunity. It is because all the hard working, drug free individuals with no criminal records have taken their talents elsewhere. Maybe to a place where the cost of living is not disproportionate with the pay.
Reality Check says:
“How long are we going to play this GAME!”
Until the wrong person with the right last name dies, or is left waiting 30+ minutes for an ALS unit to respond to their emergency.
“If you have a job you’re lucky.”
Spoken like Terry Wheeler. That’s such an asinine thing to say.
“In this kind of economy its ridiculous to think we can afford to pay more…”
No, it’s ridiculous for a few misinformed citizens who think like Ray Midgette to opine that public safety members can work more and provide more services with less pay, less equipment, etc. Overtime wasn’t a benefit to EMS employees. It was a required fact of doing business on a 24/48 schedule. If they wanted to cut overtime, they should have retained the schedule, hired for all available openings, eliminated one or two of the overpaid director/deputy director positions, and instituted Kelly days.
This new schedule is a disaster for EMS families.
Another Couty Employee says:
Just found out some intresting info Dare County EMS employees earn vacation days as does any other employee, they also earn Holiday time even if they don’t work the holiday. Now this is not fair not only do that get overtime they get holiday time even if they don’twork it. I only get paid for a holiday if I work it. How much could the county save here?
Yes I Know Who Says says:
To another couty employee:
Lets talk holiday time. The county as a benefit gives all county employees 12 holiday days a year. So if you are a county employee as you say then you get the same 12 days as I do. EMS, Deputies, Dispatchers, Jailers, and I assume a few personel that are on call back have to work on the holidays so we are not able to use our holiday time on the actual holiday as maybe you do. That being said why should I not get the holiday day? When the county offices are closed those employees are using their holiday leave to get paid, so if I am working why should I not get the holiday leave time to use at a later date?
You suggest that taking holiday leave would save the county money. Great idea. Go to the commissioners meeting and suggest that they take all county employees holiday leave. I am sure that would save a ton of money.
Ms Paramedic says:
Hello. I am also a paramedic affected by this pay cut. I have ALWAYS been very proud of what I did, worked very hard to do the absolute best job I could do, studied hard and been most proud to work for Dare County. This newly proposed schedule and the pay cut WILL BE disastrous for my family not only from a financial perspective. It will also make it more difficult for our family to spend time together. As it is currently, our jobs already make it difficult to spend enough time together. The new schedule means fewer hours, more shifts, more days and nights away from home, more days worked in the year, for a lot less money. Our current schedule allows us to work 24 hours and then have a full 2 days (48 hours) at home with our families. It is much easier to do things with your children, go to school functions, or work another job on the schedule we are using now. For some people, it means they will never be scheduled off for another whole weekend ever again. How do you plan anything as a family with school aged children if you have to work at least one day every weekend for the rest of your career? Getting time off during the summer can be daunting if you cannot plan what you want to do months in advance and I’m sure most people will agree you can’t always do that. Our current schedule makes it much easier to work things in that just come up from time to time. And those of us with children in school can’t all be off to do family things during Thanksgiving, Christmas, or Easter Break. Our current schedule should NOT be changed . . .
The EMS department is not chock full of greedy people or people who always want more, more, more. It is full of kind, compassionate, hard working people that got into this profession to help people, not become millionaires. Public safety in general has NEVER been paid what they are worth anywhere. As for the overtime, I wish there was another term for the extra hours a week we are REQUIRED to work. I think the term “overtime” is misleading to anyone without internal knowledge of our EMS department and possibly this type of shift work. Most people work a full time job of 40 hours per week and anything extra they get is their overtime. EMS is required to work overtime every week. There is no EMT or Paramedic that works on an ambulance for 40 hours a week here. The only people that work 40 hour work weeks are the administration people. We work one week at least 48 hours and on our biggest week we work 64 hours. This is required of us. It is not extra time that we can go in and just rack up the dollars like some people seem to think. It is simply the nature of the job and the way the system works. I don’t think people are tired or upset with the current schedule. The reason they are tired and overworked is because we have been understaffed for several years. Positions have not been allowed to be filled or have been frozen altogether, people are working more, and quite frankly, some people abuse their sick leave without consequence. When I first came to work here, we ran at full capacity, meaning we had 2 ambulances available in Southern Shores/Duck, Kill Devil Hills, Manteo, and Buxton/Hatteras. There was 1 ambulance available to take calls in Nags Head, Manns Harbor, and Rodanthe. That made 11 available ambulances to respond to emergencies and medical transports to other hospitals for higher levels of care. When someone got a call, another unit from another station moved around as needed to make sure that coverage was optimal. This system worked very well; like clockwork. No one complained about being tired all the time or overworked. Morale was excellent and I felt so fortunate to be working for such a fantastic, professional system that was so different from where I came from. The problem with our department now is that we are understaffed and have not run at full capacity in a very, very long time. And unfortunately, there are a select few on each shift that routinely use their sick time, in my opinion, abusively. This puts even more strain on the people that ARE working. Every shift allows 3 people vacation time for that shift, not including anyone that calls in sick, combined with the unfilled positions leaves us almost every day and every shift with only about 8 or 9 available ambulances and I can promise you, there have been MANY close calls where there was no ambulance available to respond immediately or there was only 1 ambulance left covering the county from Sanderling to Manns Harbor to the Oregon Inlet Bridge or 1 unit left for all of Hatteras Island. I have been that only ambulance sitting at the Whalebone Intersection and had to respond to an emergency call all the way to Duck. It takes a long time even without a ton of traffic to get there and it can mean the difference in whether a person lives or dies. Emergencies don’t happen on schedule or always when we have plenty of ambulances available. That’s why they are called emergencies. They are unpredictable and it is agonizing to respond to a call and have to explain to the mother, father, husband, wife, or child of a critically ill patient why it took you so long to get to them. And then they ask, “Will they still be OK even though it took a long time for you to get here?” How do you answer that question? What is a human life worth?
I realize that times are tough for almost everyone financially right now and I understand that that can mean hard decisions for our government, be it nationally or a town or county. For the people that keep telling others to live within their means, most people do and are. When you are hired for a position, you are told what your salary will be. That is how you make your own household budget. If you have the luxury of a huge salary, more often than not, you will live in a bigger house, drive a nicer car, take vacations that are more extravagant, etc. If not, you do without those things but you KNOW what you can afford and you choose to what you do with your money whether you misuse it or not. When you are told you are going to lose 5% of the money you count on to provide for your family, it is a big blow. If you are one of these people harping on living within your means and you are practicing what you preach, could you withstand a 5% pay cut or would you lose your house, or have to sell your car or not be able to give your children what they would want at Christmas? Never mind trying to save for their necessities, things like braces, financial help with a car possibly, or college. For some people, that 5% equates to $3500 and up and that is money they count on. Could your household budget take that kind of hit? I doubt it because that’s money you were counting on because you were told you COULD count on it. Numerous people have said, after examining their own budgets and working some numbers, that they could withstand a 2% to maybe a 2.5% pay cut and still be OK and would not complain about it at all if they left the schedule alone and filled a few more positions. I happen to think this would be more than enough money to cover what the Commissioners say we need to make up. I have a hard time comprehending how one of the richest counties in the state has such difficulty finding the money to pay for their essential departments like the Sheriff’s Department, EMS, its teachers, 911 Operators, Public Works, etc. I imagine that most residents would likely be willing to pay a tiny portion more for property tax if they realized what was at stake. Why not take the bare minimum from its employees, increase EMS service collections figures that aren’t so great and raise the property tax ever so slightly? I have lived in several other counties in this state and owned property in all but one. I paid more property tax in every other county I have owned property in than I do this one. And this is by far the richest county I have ever lived in.
I guess my whole point is that we only want to keep what we already have, at least as much of it as we can. We are not asking for handouts, raises or more benefits. We simply want to be permitted to keep our schedule and have a professional, trustworthy, and capable director, fill a few positions to make the load lighter for everyone and for safety reasons, keep as much of our salary as possible and continue to raise our families and do the jobs that we love. I’m sorry this post is so long. Thanks and I hope you have a safe and happy Dare Day weekend.
Medics wife says:
Very well said Ms.Paramedic.
Ms Paramedic says:
Thanks, Medic’s Wife. You know something else I wonder about all the time? I wonder if any of the Commissioners or the County Manager ever think that they or their family member could be the victim that either has to wait too long for an ambulance to respond or have to wait and there just isn’t one available at that time at all. Whether we like it or not, death comes for us all. Its just a matter of when and how. For some reason, I just don’t believe they ever think it could happen to them or their family. And after 20+ years of service as a paramedic, and having seen that anything can happen to anyone at any given moment, I find that to be very presumptuous, a little arrogant and definitely bewildering. This whole situation with EMS seems to be a concept that completely eludes them all. Am I the only one that has wondered this?
Durham County Employee says:
After 4 yrs as a summer resisdent and a former EMT of Durham and Wake county…its shocking to see the higher hourly wage and the lower call volume of EMTs in Dare County. I understand the lower call volume and the extended distance to transport non critical patients. We used private ambulance services to transport stable ALS and BLS patients if we had to exceed 60 miles or two counties for tranport. I am curious if this is ever considered option to keep coverage in critical areas?
Ms Paramedic says:
As far as I know, the Commissioners did not want to give up that revenue and have never wanted a transport service to do any of our transports. At least that’s what I have been told.