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Dare EMS budget problems stirring concerns
Dare County Emergency Medical Services workers are watching anxiously as plans unfold for creating new schedules and cutting overtime to address perennial budget overruns.
Because EMS shifts are structured as 24 hours on and 48 hours off, the work week comes out to 56 hours, creating the need for an annual overtime budget of more than $1 million.
County Manager Bobby Outten said Monday that the overtime budget has been consistently exceeded. Asked for how long, he said “several” years.
“I’ve got to get that operation within its budget,” he said.
EMS workers and their supporters, most speaking anonymously by e-mail and phone, say the scheduling has led many to factor the overtime into their family budgets. With base pay comparable to other counties, some say they need the extra money to pay bills in Dare, where the cost of living is higher.
An estimate commonly cited is that losing overtime would equate to a 10 percent pay cut. Some are concerned that the changes could weaken EMS as paramedics look for jobs elsewhere.
But Outten said the system now is “not sustainable in the long run.”
Plans have not been finalized, but Outten did say that changes are coming. County officials are analyzing call volume by time of day, seasons and months to see when overstaffing might be occurring. The county is also looking to fill five positions, he said.
The object, he said, would be to cut back during slower times, such as early mornings in the winter, and shifting assets to periods when they are most needed.
Structuring schedules at 24 hours on and 48 hours off is appealing to some workers because they are predictable enough to allow them to hold down second jobs.
Initial salaries for Emergency Medical Technicians are about $24,000 to $29,000, while paramedics can start at a little over $32,000. This year, salaries were budgeted at $3.1 million and overtime at $1.4 million.
At Monday’s Board of Commissioners meeting, two speakers expressed concerns about changes in scheduling.
Georgianna Dunn, a former Dare County paramedic, said she participated in a 1999 salary study. She said the structure and management needs retooling, but cutting personnel and the number of ambulances on call is not the solution.
“EMS needs radical management and staffing changes,” she said. “There’s no need for finger pointing or blame. We just need to fix the problem. Reducing the number of medics and ambulances on the road is not the answer.”
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PDQ says:
I don’t have any relatives who are EMSers, but since Outten says the overtime pay has been exceeded for years, then it is time to increase that budget line. Seriously — the base pay sucks for most. It’s only good for those in charge. Right now, these folks need a second job to make ends meet. We are trusting our LIVES to these folks. They deserve better. This county can afford it. Take away one or two credit cards from the commissioners. Reduce pay for top level executives. Take away the travel line for our commissioners and have them rely solely on reimbursements, to a limit.
JF says:
The OT expenses are a third of the Base pay expenses. The question would be the balancing of OT versus changing the schedule to eliminate or lower the OT expenses with more personnel. The more personal will add to the base pay along with benefit expenses. Analysis has to be made between the cost of OT and the cost of added personnel.
beach or not says:
Agree with PDQ with this exception. Outten is being paid the big bucks to manage within the budget, not to consistently exceed the budget for years. When it is said there is no need for finger pointing, the exact opposite is true. Point a finger at Outten for consistently exceeding the budget.
Anonymous says:
It is a sad day when a dance instructor for the county makes more money than Emergency Medical Personel.
ekim says:
I dont like my job , but it pays well, They love their jobs but it doesnt pay well, sooooooo
KDH Rezident Evil says:
Mike,
Their job involves helping people who have been hurt, some grievously, and are in need of immediate medical attention.
Your job consists of posting grammatically incorrect right-wing comments, specious theological arguments, and hair brain conspiracy theories on EOD, the Voice, and other electronic forums.
At least if you quit, it will be for the betterment of Darekind. However, I think a fair number of the rest of us don’t want to loose too many paramedics.
Nervous for our family says:
My family will not be able to live if they cut our pay the way they are talking. There is so may ways you can cut and the pay is not one of them can any of you survive if your boss told you you had to take a 11% pay cut? You can not predict when a emergency will arise. So to say you can cut trucks during slower times is crazy. It can be dead on second and crazy the next.
Just Sayin... says:
“ekim” (or Mike) drives me crazy, but why does The Voice allow KDH Rezident Evils’ inflammatory comment to stand when similar comments are routinely removed? Could it be KDH Rezident Evil is more in line with your views?
fd says:
If they want to save some money and increase ems salary. Start with cutting some the salaries like Parks and Rec director making 90,000 a year or even the county manager who makes more than the VP of the USA. Some of the supervisor salaries are atrocious and the first thing they always want to cut is deputy’s or ems. Also take a look at the salary for the assistant ems director. For that kind of money his butt can get into one of the trucks and work like the rest of them.
Frank Moore says:
I won’t address the amount of pay these very vital employees of Dare County make, that is an issue between the county and the employee, although I will say that many public service jobs are underpaid. What I will address is that in my 38 years of public service I ALWAYS advised my employees not to figure any overtime pay in their working household budget. Base pay and hours are guaranteed; overtime pay and hours is not and should never be considered when making any financial commitment. Some will argure that they need to work two jobs without overtime, but in a sense overtime work is a second job with no guarantee it will last. Just a thought!
Joe Paramedic says:
Frank. I agree that with most jobs, overtime is not guarentted and should not be considered in your family budget. However, we work a rotating 24 hours on and 48 hours off. We have always worked this schedule, so we were always guarenteed overtime and always knew exactly how many hours we were going to work that pay cycle. This is why we budgeted our expenses based off of our base salary + overtime. I would also like to say that I think most would agree that a $32,000 salary for a paramedic that functions very similarly to an emergency physician is a very low salary. Paramedics must use a limited amount of diagnostic equipment and a wealth of knowledge obtained through rigorous training to assess a patient in less than ideal conditions to make a field diagnosis and appropriately treat the patient with an assortment of medications and procedures. They also transport critically ill and injured patients to higher level of care hospitals. This sometimes involves patients on ventilators, blood transfusions, chest tubes, and may involve administration of sedation and/or anesthesia medications. Paramedics can also use an external pacemaker to temporarily keep patients alive until they can have a pacemaker implanted surgically. Food for thought.
hmc says:
I agree with Mr. Moore to a point. Yes, folks should live within their means and that should be ones base pay. Unfortunately these employees work many hours of scheduled overtime. Based on their work schedule and their classification of what defines regular hours for a pay cycle they always end up with overtime. The majority of overtime these employees work is known and easily calculated for each budget year.
Ekim says:
HEY People please RAISE MY TAXES I just aint TAXED ENOUGH OK IS that what you BOZOS want!!! FD is dead on!!! Wake up an smell the MANURE!! You bozos cant handel REAL work but Iam ahead of the GAME!!! PS they sensor me ALL THE TIME!!!! NOBODY is banging what these people do for a living!!! ITS THEIR CHOICE!!! SAME AS A SOLDIER!!! SOOOOOOO WHAT NEXT! PS They probably SCRAPE more wankers off 158 then LOCALS!!! ITS time for CUTS AN LAYYYYYYOOOOFFFSSS SUCK IT UP!!!! BUSINESS IS BUSINESS!!!!
Nice says:
I agree with Just Saying. My comments never get approved. Maybe I need to start picking on other posters and throw in a little liberal rhetoric so they will be approved.
Joe jr says:
Joe, if you ask any EMT, Paramedic why did you get into this line of work none of them will say for the money. If you ask the EMT, Paramedic why did you come to work for Dare County it wont be for the pay, usualy it’s nwhat the county has to offer, good schools, good parks and rec for the childern goodd adult seevices most say that the equipment y’all use here is better then what we had (up) home.
Dorothy Robinson says:
I agree with fd’s reply, start cutting salaries of the upper brass. They can afford to pay their expenses. Stop using county credit cards, take away their benefits, the county stop putting funds into their 401k, and all of the other good things they get. When I worked a number of years ago, (1950′s) I made more than the EMS starting salary, cutting their salary is ridiculous. It is expensive to live in Dare County. When they go to the food store in their uniform using food stamps/cards, just let the public see what is happening in this county. DISGRACE…. Most of the EMS personnel work part time jobs just to meet their household expenses. Nothing elaborate. Taking one ambulance out of service at night is unbelievable. What happens if a call comes into the station that a person has had a heart attack and the ambulance is on a call, what does that person do, no ambulance or EMS personnel to go on the call. Just let them die. Maybe you can live with that, but I sure couldn’t. The residents on Hatteras Island are very proud of the EMS and Paramedic personnel that are serving them, and so are the tourist. I think that the group of people that is working on this EMS project should reconsider what they are doing, not only to the EMS personnel but to the residents in Dare County. I think that some of the EMS and Paramedics will be moving to other counties and without a pay cut. GOD BLESS OUR EMS AND PARAMEDIC PERSONNEL.
Andy says:
It isn’t just 11%. EMTs are county employees they have not had a cost of living pay raise in 5 years. That is an other 10-15%. Pay cut on top of pay cut. Housing costs aren’t come down that much.
bbc says:
emts/police/school teachers/etal…….just pawns in the let’s raise taxes scheme. time to start trimming some of the wasteful spending folks.
ekim says:
Every great paying job I have had, SUCKED! Why? because it was hard dirty nasty WORK, Thats why it paid so well, EMTs very nasty work no doubt, But like FD said parks an rec director is pulling $90.000 a year TO run 2gyms PLEASE! It aint the tax payer screwing you. Holding down a job because you love it or you think its NOBLE is plane FOOLISH! I aint shedin no tears for you. On a smart ass note rumore is LOWES cant find any help because no one can pass the drug test, So we can use that as a central hub , The EMTs can work there an park the ambulances there to! Go from one job to the next. GOTTA GO Iam late for my highpaying dirty nast JOB!
Jackie Harris says:
When they do the numbers of busy time and schedules they should also look at which EMS station’s are the busiest? What a of of people do not realize is the number of long hauls to Chesapeake,Norfolk,Vb,Greenville. Maybe it is time for the County to allow an outside agency in to do long hauls!?? Would this reduce the OT?? probably not but it would reduce the fuel cost,wear tear, on the ambulances which would make them last longer. I do not support turning the whole EMS service to a private contractor just the long haul portion. Also Mr. Outten forgot to say that Medicare,etc pay a large portion of the budget!.
junkman says:
How many times have we heard that the government should be run like a business ? Well, it looks like someone is trying to do that here and a few people (probably the same) don’t like it. Businesses manage cos change schedules and operations to get better productivity from its resources. So what’s the issue ? If we can get EMS coverage at a lower cost – good. Nobody is guaranteed a salary and your most rigid Tea Party dude will argue that over and over. Lets do the same with all county services. How much OT do the cops get ? I think there’s an opportunity here.
johnr says:
To KDH Resident Evil——–couldn’t resist this—–check your spelling—-should’ve been “lose”, not “loose”.
I’ve also had a couple of posts deleted. Russ and/or Rob must have “flexible” criteria. I see way worse things left up than I’ve ever said. Oh, well. So much for objectivity.
really says:
I have worked in Ems for 20+ years, and would never consider working for dare county. The 24/48 schedule has been proven by many fire departments to be the worst for the mental and physical well being of its members. Before the recession people would come up to us in public and say thank you to us for choosing our profession, that they would never do it for the small salaries that we receive. Now post recession we are targeted as if we should be ashamed of our pay, like it increased, well it hasn’t. The country commissioners need to realize that they can be replaced easier than the Ems personnel. Lowes can’t find enough people to open, now add more than just passing a drug test to the requirements, Someone on here made a comment that dare Ems’s management needs a house cleaning, more than anyone could imagine. I stopped in one day to feel things out and was told that they never hire anyone unless they volunteer
really says:
Now that’s a good way to find the best people for dare county Ems limit your applicant pool to only those who can afford to work for free. Sorry but its to much work getting and keeping all the required certifications needed to be a Ems provider to work for free. All of the surrounding counties work 4 shifts that each shift works a 24 and a 18hr shift per week for about the same take home pay, not the 3 shift schedule that dare has, and their salary is somewhat lower to make up for the overtime. They don’t have new equipment, just look at the 1950′s stretchers they have.
the truth is says:
The county commissioner does not like having to pay for ems, but the dept of transportation rules say that they have too. So to try to justify a ems persons jobs they make them do non 911 transports. Which has led to many accidents from ems persons falling to sleep doing long hauls to Virginia right at the end of their 24hr shift. What ever we do lets not let a private medical transport company set up shop in dare county to do non emergency transports. It might leed to more jobs in dare county then we might not have the highest unemployment rate in the state.
Get it stight says:
Really, your facts are wrong not ALL surrounding counties have 4shifts. Please get your facts stright also I was not a volunteer when Dare County hired me 5 years ago.
the truth is says:
Cutting the available medic units on the county streets would work, if commissioner outten could buy a new crystal ball with the savings. There is no way of knowing if when or where the next medical emergency will be in the county. We can predict when the next election will be for county commissioners. We can not play politics with our public safety personnel. We need the best police, fire and ems people we can get. 12hr ems shifts will not work, everyone would quit, and no one would apply to replace them.
Ray Midgett says:
Believe it or not there was a time, not long ago, that Dare County did not bill local residents for EMS ambulance service, especially if they did not have insurance. More recently, I was told that the county did not bill any of the 700 county employees for ambulance services because it was a “catch 22″ for their county paid health insurance (never understood that ??). Finally, several years ago the county was running an extremely high accounts receivable for unpaid ambulance/EMT services and vowed to increase its collection efforts. Perhaps someone can fill us in on some of these details.
Joe Paramedic says:
Ray: Dare County is self insured. If They charged their employees for ambulance transports they would just be billing themselves. It’s a wash.
johnr says:
Joe, not necessarily correct. If they had a copay for ambulance, covered employees/dependents who used that benefit would kick in some money to defray the cost with the County self insuring for the rest up to any reinsurance threshold.
This is all conjecture, as I’m not familiar with the details of how the County has structured its health insurance.
Ray Midgett says:
Joe P.
Ever hear of deductibles? By not billing the employees, the county is giving them a price break not offered to others. Why shouldn’t the employees pay their deductible just like everyone else has to do? Co-pays? JMO.
Trying to understand says:
Let me see if I get this, EMS employees get a good base salery, overttime, health insurance, longevity pay, paid vacations, trainig paid for, work only 10 days a month, able to sleep on the job (when they are not on a call). And they can’t make it on that? I work 40 hours a week less when weather is bad, and I make it, no fancy car, no fancy house, bills don’t get paid but we make it (I do manual larbor) Someone needs to explain this a little better.
junkman says:
Billing for EMS services is a double hit to any resident using the service. We pay taxes to provide the service then bet billed for using the service ? Makes no sense. The cost is the same whether these guys are sitting in the bunk house drinking coffee or putting an arm back together – other than a few bucks in gas and medical supplies. I’d like to know how much the county makes in billing from insurance companies and individuals. Where is that money accounted for and how much ?
Dont understand people says:
I dont understand you people on here putting down the ems people. Do you not realize they are out there saving peoples lives. One day you or a family member will need one of them to show up to save your loved one. And with these cuts there might not be enough trucks out there to save your loved one. THINK ABOUT THAT. How would you people feel if your boss told you that you had to take a pay cut of 11% not to mention that you have not had a raise since 2008. these ems people dont drive fancy cars or have big houses. they are normal familys struggling to survive just like everyone else here in the outerbanks. In a time where cost of everything is going up and you are told you are going to get paid less is wrong and any of you out there puting ems workers down are wrong. You know who is out there driving the fancy cars and living in the big houses the ones that make the big bucks who are not asked to take a pay cut. thats wrong. You people need to think before you speak. PUT YOURSELF IN THESE PEOPLES SHOES.
Ray Midgett says:
Junkman, your logic of a “double hit” could be applied to any county service; water, garbage, etc. That dog won’t hunt.
Incidentally, the county billed $2,279,000 for ambulance services in 2011 and $2,204,000 in 2010. Their collection efforts have traditionally fallen short, despite promises to improve in that area.
Also, here’s a quote from the last year’s audit: “The expenditures of the Emergency Medical Department (General Fund) exceeded appropriations by $147,919 (1.90%)
due to a managerial failure to properly monitor overtime and due to the absence of savings from historically normal
employee turnover with the department.”
Eye on Ray says:
Ray, a price break? Like calling an ambulance is a choice? It’s not like working at the sunglasses hut where they get 50% off btw that’s called a perk, benefit if you will. Anyway, the county employees pay their deductibles everywhere else.
Terry says:
The question is are the ones who watch the budget and cost going to have lower pay and hours too? Not likely and they sit behind desk not work out in terrible conditions to keep others alive. The same goes for teachers…they do the work but get less pay. I think we need better people handling our money and also listen to the workers about how to save money.
junkman says:
Ray Midgette. Not sure what you’re talking about, but lets take garbage service as an example. I don’t pay every time the truck comes to my house, but the way you run EMS I could be billed if they came. This, despite the fact that our taxes cover all salaries, equipment, consumables, insurance, etc,etc. for EMS. Its a fixed cost. The dog does hunt……..WOOF ! WOOF !
Its a double hit for county taxpayers.
If, as you say the county billed $2.3 million in 2011, where did the money go? Put a link up on this site so we can see the details.
Ray Midgett says:
Junkman, my figures on EMS billings came directly from the county’s annual audit. You can go to the county website and read the audit report. By the way, poor Midgett’s don’t put an “e” on the end of their name. I’m a “Midgett”.
Enraged EMT says:
So, I read almost every comment on this article and now I’m pissed. I would like to thank those of you who has shown support, and enlighten those of you who are, for all intents and purposes, bashing the EMS personel. First, to those who seem to not understand just what it is we do… We do not just sit at the station and watch tv and nap all shift. We actually are required to clean and maintain the station and equipment on a regular basis (not hard work but necessary… You know, to keep you safe and/or ALIVE) and that is the tame stuff. How about standing in a ditch full of water, mud, and blood while helping someone breathe while the fire department cuts them out of the car. How about fighting back tears as you tell a mother that her child is dead, or those of us that are native Dare County natives who recieve calls to oreform CPR on family members. Next, the overtime issue. This is scheduled overtime and has not changed sin 20 years. Obviously the budget has not grown with the system regardless of efforts made by those within the EMS system. Do some of you honestly think that it is right for me to take a pay cut because someone higher up the food chain didn’t balance their check book properly? There has been a poor allocation of funds by upper management for years and now that the doo doo has hit the fan,stunk up the commissioners meeting room, and they have shoveled it into the county manager’s office, they are looking for a quick fix that hurts many people and doesn’t really help anyone but them. Oh by the way EMTs and paramedics pay taxes too!
junkman says:
Ray ….as Shakespeare once asked “What’s in a name ?”
So, since you won’t show us those numbers I’ll move on to another topic. Good luck with your dogs.
What about the benefits ? Health care, retirement, vacation, sick leave, etc. Its worth – a lot. Million of Americans have had their benefits cut or eliminated, so there’s a significant value here. Its part of the overall compensation package. The 1% ‘ers get stock options,
bonuses, cars, and private dining rooms. Us 99%’ers may be lucky enough to get healthcare coverage. There are many jobs out there that may pay more but don’t offer benefits, so lets not overlook what that adds. Some jobs may pay more but not offer the package. Look at the bigger picture.
Enraged EMT says:
Oh another thing… As far as out benefits are concerned we receive health insurance… However there is no contribution to a 401k no cost of living raises, and the longevity has been cut to almost nothing. Not to mention we have been running extremely short staffed recently because 6 positions disappeared (were frozen and never came back). That is another place much of the overtime budget has gone.
John says:
Enraged EMT, I do not have a 401k, no retirement, no longevity, no health inursance, and no help to do my job. Yes it is my choice to work for my self as it is yours to be an EMT and stand in that ditch maybe you need to find another job that is not so stressfull?
Enraged EMT says:
John you didn’t read what I wrote very well. I do not have a 401k I have the option to pay into one, as most do (in some form or fashion), my employers do not contribute (any longer) to their employees 401k. As far as the standing in the ditch is concerned, what would you do if we all quit because we were up all night running calls and then you just so happened to need an ambulance the next day. Who would you blame then? Or when there are only 8 ambulances to cover the entire county which Is part of the plan proposed, 4 are on calls out of the county on long hauls (yes we do that too), and two are tied up on calls in the county,leaving two to cover the whole county. 1 on Hatteras and one on the north beaches. What happens when the truck at whalebone gets a call in Duck? This is not just about us loosing money. We do what we do because we genuinely care for the people of Dare County and you (assuming you are a resident) suffer as well.
John says:
Enraged EMTit must be about the money thats all i tead about, I haven’t read anything about employees gripping about not hiring nor have I read about them hireing new people and cutting your pay, only that we do not have enough money to pay you what you think your worth. Hm must be sour grapes!
Mr. Medic says:
Well John… Perhaps you should eat some of those sour grapes. You are correct that there is a financial issue, the fact of the matter is that no matter what career you chose, an 11% pay cut would hurt. We as EMT’s and Paramedics do what we’ do because we love our job and love helping people. We have been understaffed for several years now, and yet we continue. So let me ask you a question… Have you ever needed an ambulance? I’m guessing the answer is no. When I can respond to the accident scene and pull your lifeless child’s body out of a mangled car, and the skills that I have can literally save their life, how much am I worth then?? When you have a heart attack, any my interventions allow you to continue living, how much am I worth then?? Congratulations, you get to see your child have another birthday, take swimming lessons, play sports, and graduate… Why?? Because I was there and could make a difference! So now how much am I worth? This isn’t about how much I think I am worth, it’s about the difference I can make by being there… So put a price tag on your child’s life, then we can talk.
Enraged EMT says:
John, again you must not have been reading very closely or reading anything Other than this article. Have you talked to any of the employees or have you just seen what people have written on here? Before you take up a stance check the facts and look at both sides of the story
John says:
I have needednthenambulance in this county and out. When i asked why the emts got into this job the repliy has been “not because of the money” so i ask again if the ems department is short on overtime money where will it come from? Are you going to cut school jobs? No how bout the seinor citizens cut there money they don’t need it. No the garabage trucks we don’t need them. Lets rase taxes, yea thats the answer not that mr taxepayer hasn’t got the raw end of the stick make all the citizens that pay taxes pay more so 80 employees can have ocertime. Sotp wineing you have a job!
Jackie Harris says:
I would like one of the Para medic’s and Emt to post the amount of hours that they have to get to be certified and also there continuing hours every year to keep there cert’s. I am willing to bet that the only job’s in the county that have required hours that equal that are in the EMERGENCY Services!. The ls I heard there were al least 10 Vacancies in EMS?? where are those salary’s going??? Who makes the decision to not fill them when they become vacant?? It is time to SUPPORT Your Public Safety wORKERS!!.
Enraged EMT says:
Where the money will come from is not the important question. The question you should be asking is, where has the money that could be going to hiring enough people gone? Credit lines for the commissioners? Million dollar dog parks? Dance instructors that make 100k per year? Bobby Outten’s 249k per year salary? Don’t get me wrong I don’t think anyone’s pay should be cut I think management needs an overhaul. There has been a poor allocation of funds over an extended period of time that has not allowed the EMS budget to grow with the system. I do not think taxes should be raised. I pay the same taxes everyone else pays. The system has gone over budget on overtime because the management has not been able to hire several positions over the last few years to adequately staff the amount of ambulances this county needs. Therefore, employees get called in for extra shifts, have to stay over until relief arrives, and so on. I understand the business practice of cutting overtime when the business is running over budget, however when the problem is caused by poor management over several years the employees should not be the ones to suffer. Especially when the employees are given a months notice that the will take an 11% cut in pay . . .
Salt_Life says:
Wow! Just Wow!! Where some ‘get it’, others are so far left they are right. Shame on you nay-say’ers for thinking it’s easy or expected or the fault of the employee! Ridiculous!! Thank you for the supporters on here understanding how important EMS is, along with other public safety entities (police, fire, 911, ems) … It is amazing to me how some think ‘anyone’ can do any of those jobs mentioned at the snap of a finger. Until you have worked shift work, you have absolutely NO CLUE! Yea you see it on paper, you hear about it, you have friends / family that miss this and that, but until you actually DO it you will never understand! Promise. To understand going from a mindset of normal everyday ‘thinking’ to someones life is in my hands or will I make it home to see my loved ones, is slightly different than bagging groceries, pulling weeds, answering phones, etc, yes all jobs are work, just different types of ‘work’ … If you think you have an idea, please, I invite you to step to the plate – work a complete week of shifts with each entity, in a busy station, most likely over a weekend; maybe, just maybe you would have a different light… As for money, there is no worth that can be put on life, but until you need the services, most will never see far past their nose … As for you John, please state your whole name so we can put you on a ‘DNR’ list (Do Not Respond) list since you think so little of public safety and its’ services – anyone else please feel free to join but please don’t sue, gripe, whine or complain when your life is altered, your loved one gone or you spoke without thinking. Now to the meat and potatoes of it – public safety county employees griping about ‘benefits’ taken from them, why of course they do. They entered into a ‘contract’ with the county to work a certain number of hours, to perform a certain duty and to the best of their ability, to continue their knowledge through continuing ed, to represent the county in such a way that would make any county resident proud, to work long tireless hours including holidays and weekends – yet the county fails to stand up to their end of the ‘contract’ – pay and benefits. Pay is always a struggle with the county, and when I say struggle I mean they always make a big hype on they can’t pay this or that, they can’t put more money in the budget, there will be no raises, they stop putting into 401k, cut longevity by great percents, freezing positions, etc; yet some still receive pay increases and continue to rake in salaries that double sometimes triple that of the ‘average’ paid employee. Which all leads me to my next comment, had they not of froze the ems positions then they wouldn’t be paying double overtime or extra overtime than what was already ‘scheduled’ (ie 56 hour work week). Most that do math know that $32k plus ‘normally’ scheduled overtime is what = the allotted budget, their scheduled hours don’t change unless having to work someone else’s shift. My question is this, if they ‘froze’ those positions due to lack in money, wouldn’t their money last longer if they pulled from the line item of ‘overtime money’ and paid regular salaries unfreezing positions to have employees on? All I can say is I don’t want whoever is adding and subtracting here to be doing my checkbook. This is the same song and dance the county tried a few years ago with the 911 Dispatchers; where ‘overtime’ is figured into their salary yet they wanted to cut their overtime, which equaled cutting their salary. They did but realized after going to the drawing board on several occasions what they were actually doing. Again, understanding the job and money you manage is a huge key in being a successful manager! The ‘behind the scenes’ that county employees endure / encounter will never truly be in the ‘eye of the public’, so we can all say what we want and think as we will, but until you have walked in their shoes, please keep your negativity to yourself. It’s people like you in today’s society that keep the pot stirred, the lawyers richer, the court systems tied up on frivolous cases, the laziness of society front and foremost because you think you are owed something, the thought that someone else should do it or could do it, the banned wagon still trucking like in Oregon Trail, etc. Yes there are a lot of people that work hard – physically and emotionally / mentally. Emotional / mental work is just as exhausting and physical work, no one job is ‘better’ than another. There ARE jobs that require more respect and support, some dangerous than others, some that without the employees life would be in shambles – one entity being that of public safety. What you see and what really goes on behind the scenes are two totally different things, if you think you know it all, I think you would be surprised at what you learn if you took the time to ‘be a part of their shift’ if nothing more than for your own knowledge… And yes, some do have ‘ride along’ or ‘observation’ programs. No excuses, just do it! … And kudos to teachers and military, your job is underpaid and not respected as it should be!
Andy says:
“Stop whining you have a job”, “Pay more taxes so 80 can have overtime”
Nobody likes having their pay frozen for five years. However, it might be whining to complain about that when so many are out of work. This is not the issue.
EMS requires coverage 24/7. Overtime was built into the schedule because that is how the county chose to design the system. People were hired and moved here and bought homes based on the published salary structure. Now, management is unilaterally changing the system and taking money out of the pockets of hard working and very well qualified individuals pockets.
That isn’t right.
Another one. says:
well now we are all in a tizzy. John, if it were for the money we would all have gone to med school or law school…it is because we care…..but we still have to pay our bills. And believe it or not…working 24 hours away from home(wherever that may be)is not easy….and that is IF you get a break…very infrequent these days. Nearly all the employees of DCEMS have second and third jobs…if this budget issue is not resolved in a good fashion many will have to work more at their other jobs than at this one!….now that doesn’t make sense. Someone needs to be held accountable for this error that appears as if it has been an ongoing thing instead of punishing the people who had no hand in making the error!….and lastly…what ever happened to the FEMA money that was supposed to reimburse the county for the expenses after Isabel?……there are still answers to be had!
Enraged EMT says:
Salt life and Andy thank you for the support. Jackie, to answer your question, North Carolina required that I have 256 hours minimum for my initial certification (EMTs- Intermediate). A paramedicinitial cert, which I play on taking this winter, is 1096 hours. These are a total of time spent in the classroom, on the ambulance (which can not be accrued while being paid), and in a hospital or other medical facility. We are also required to take part in monthly continuing education. And a 72 hour refresher course every two years. These are the state minimum requirements this does not take into consideration the countless hours of on and off the job training that many if not all of us do I.e listening to lectures while driving, reading articles in EMS magazines and blogs, teaching EMS classes, and so on.
NC EMT says:
copied from NC OEMS Webpage
http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dhsr/EMS/credcomp.htm
EMT – Didactic, skills practice/evaluation, written exams, scope of practice 169 hours
Total Recommended EMT Program Length 169 hours
EMT-I – 1.Didactic, skills practice/evaluation, written exams, scope of practice 160 hours
2.Clinical Education, remediation 48 hours
3.Field Internship, remediation 48 hours
Total Recommended EMT-I Program Length 256 hours
Paramedic – 1.Didactic, skills practice/evaluation, written exams, scope of practice 596 hours
2.Clinical Education, remediation 200 hours
3.Field Internship, remediation 300 hours
Total Recommended EMT-P Program Length 1096 hours
On the fence says:
Why is EMS working the firemen shift 24 on 48 off? EMS gets overtime for anything over 40 hours in a week. So if you work Sunday Wednesday Saturday that’s 72 hours so 32 hours overtime? WOW! If I have this correct than someting is wrong. I’m not bashing anyone and I have no problem with overtime but that seems excessive.
Just Saying says:
I think if the county went with reg. 8-hour shifts vs this ridiculous 24-hour shift structure, not only will EMT’s be in better health / alertness to serve the people and do their job but they will not be paid to sleep. 8 hour shifts would also eliminate a lot of overtime, I ‘m not a economist but I can see right now that when you have 24 hr shifts and you have to cover vacation and paid days off you are gonna be in serious OT territory. 8 hr shifts would be easier to to cover vacations and holidays. Just my opinion, to think someone could stay up, awake and work 24 hrs straight and save someone’s life if need be is absolutely insane and a safety hazard. The County would save a lot of $ too. Oh that’s right, the only way they can all work these 2nd and 3rd jobs is if the County pays them to sleep. Nevermind… get a second job like the rest of us, we don’t get paid to sleep, we just go from one job to the next and work!
nags head bob says:
Well I’m generally against government waste, but these people are Emergency Responders and until someone with the county figures a way to schedule emergencies the way the federal government schedule theirs, we might want to raise that line item and cut some from other areas. Some of the land deals the county gets involved with might be a good start.
Mad wife says:
To you just saying. You new to know the facts before you go talking about something you know nothing about. My husband works the 24 hours and 9 times out of 10 does not sleep at night. Comes home and changes and goes right back out to his second job. So for you to be talking the way you are is wrong. Again I say if your job was to come to you and tell you that you were taking a pay cut would your family survive? These people are out there saving people and for you to be talking about them the way you people are you should be ashamed the county should be ashamed to even bring this up.
Joe Paramedic says:
Sleep? What’s that? You are so misinformed. It is very rare that I ever get a chance to even take a cat nap. Usually I never see a bed during my shift. I don’t mind that though. That is what we get paid to do. Respond at the drop of a hat, anytime of day or night. The real issue is the lack of appreciation demonstrated by this proposed pay cut. Call it overtime reduction if you want. Less money to pay bills, feed my children and put back into Dare County economy. It is hard enough to find people to work here as it is. Most EMS is comprised of people hired from outside of Dare County. What happens when you start paying less than what is offered in other areas that have half the cost of living? Good luck staffing those 8 hour shifts. People forget that this place was a revolving door before we were paid time and a half overtime.
Who's in charge? says:
After reading the article and comments I think we should reflect on what it is we are trying to achieve here. As a longtime resident of Dare County I have seen EMS personnel, teachers, police officers and other government employees earning salaries much lower than national averages. I see how we can easily change the focus of the topic to worthiness, career choice and taxes. Why was the EMS schedule set up this way in the first place? I wouldn’t want someone bagging my expensive groceries after working 20+ hours let alone expect a hard working medical professional perform life saving functions after working the same amount of time. Why not raise their base pay and restructure the schedule giving them shorter shifts and less overtime? Compensate them for doing their jobs and consider the comments of others regarding reviewing other positions with the county where salaries are exorbitant. It’s a budget. That part is easy. Finding people to decide what merits attention on the budget in this county is another matter.
Just Saying says:
exactly, who could really do their job on zero sleep! Nobody!!!! I don’t know why they want it that way. 8 hr shifts would make more sense. No one is saying they don’t work hard, I’m sure they are underpaid but eliminating the 24-hour shifts would probably allow them to hire more staff, pay better and get more sleep. They are complaining about getting zero sleep and I’m saying yes, switch it and then they’ll get sleep and the County will save $. Why doesnt the EMS want to do away with teh 24-hour shifts? How could any paramedic function properly or drive an ambulance like that? Its totally unsafe!
Pat Avon says:
I want to thank all the EMS of Dare co..They are worth all the money..They save me from a car in June of 2010 and tried to save my husband last year, they do a good job and no one knows, until they need them..Give them a good pay and shorter hours..they are on the spot when needed..there is always cases when they are needed..without them what would YOU DO..if you needed someone.. Just like the fireman..under paid or a volunteers here on Hatteras Island..This is what are taxes are for… not paper pushers..
On the fence says:
And start charging for Dare medflight. It is Needed but it is a huge cost that is not recouped.
Mad wife says:
I love how all of you who know nothing about the Ems system seem to think that you have all the answers
another mad wife says:
With budget cuts, EMS is just about to loose the most experienced and qualified personnel. Dare County is looking to reduce funding to one of the most important departments, without any concern that EMS employees will go to different counties or get additional qualifications to get nursing degrees. Public is not standing up for EMS – maybe because they don’t know about what’s happening… But the EMS budget cuts will mean fewer highly qualified people. Doctors do save lives, but from the time an accident or a heart attack happens, someone needs to keep people alive. I would think that tourists who spend millions on the Outer Banks would want to have the assurance that they will make it to the hospital, so would the Outer Banks locals who care about their loved ones… If EMS personnel doesn’t get enough money to pay their bills, it will be hard to find people willing to take the job. The people who keep their jobs will end up working overtime, so with fewer trucks available for quick response and over-worked people, don’t see how the proposed changes to the EMS shifts and budgeting will be benefitial to anyone…
Jen says:
Noone cares about EMS, until one day something happens to their loved ones. And then you get what you pay for, right? Having the right person on scene can make a difference between life and death.
Leslie says:
I am sorry, “Just Saying”, but you have no idea what you are talking about – “getting paid to sleep”??? You must not know how many Emergency Medical calls this county gets. Maybe you should get some statistics, just saying
Jonathan says:
The exceeding of the EMS budget simply put is the failure of the Dare County Finance department NOT budgeting EMS correctly. I am a paramedic, do not live in a fancy home, a simple 2 bedroom “Beach Box” and do not drive a fancy car. If you take the Dare County EMS hourly rate for 40 hours/week total of $36,000, that is BELOW the national average for a Paramedic. A single person can not live in Dare County making that kind of money when you onsider the take home pay for that amout is only about $800 every 2 weeks !!!
When someone NEEDS an ambulance, I am sure they don’t care what it cost. If you have never needed an ambulance, then you just don’t care. But trust me, one day you will need one and at this rate there will be very few to come help you.
Benefits have been taken away from DCEMS employees on a regular basis over the past 4 years. No cost of living or time in service increase since 2008. No 401k County contribution.
One day, a County Politician will need an ambulance and not get one. They will blame EMS, but all the need to look in order to find fault is the mirror.
If this happens to me or my family, the EMS budget will be pennies compared to the lawsuit that will result and then I can retire with a health paycheck !!
THe residents and visitors EXPECT the best EMS care, Police protection and Fire protection but they get none of that.
Finally, if you only need a ride to the hospital because you have a toothache (yes, it has happened), then dont call one. And dammit, stop telling it’s okay “cuz I got Medicaid” !!!
Sue says:
I have never understood how people like EMS and nurses are supposed to work rotating/long shifts, get very little sleep, and carry responsibility for people’s lives. Add to that the marked lack of appreciation for service, and you wonder why they even show up. People who still choose to serve under such duress should be shown more respect. This pay cut is a slap in the face. For what? So the powers that be can sit on their indifferent buns and still maintain their overpadded standard of living? All workers want appreciation. You’d be surprised how overboard people will go in their jobs, even with a pay cut, if they’re treated like human beings that deserve a little respect here and there.